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USER COMMENTS BY “ DISCERNING BELIEVER ”
Page 1 | Page 3 ·  Found: 500 user comments posted recently.
Survey3/4/08 5:24 PM
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Bernard,

The bible explains itself. It doesn't need man's opinions to explain it. It is a self sufficient in its own rights and God is the author, the Holy Spirit is its teacher.


Survey3/4/08 5:17 PM
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JD,

I still don't think Minnow will get it. He already admitted on another thread to rejecting the bible and subscribing to the writers of the reformed confessions instead. So it doesn't matter how much scripture you throw at him, it is not his authority.


Survey3/4/08 3:43 PM
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Minnow, that is all fine and good, but where is the scripture proof that JD and I am asking for.

Secondly, you keep referring to baptism as a sacrament. What is the difference between a sacrament and an ordinance?

Thirdly, was the baptism of Christ a pattern for believers today to follow? Then it must have a specific purpose and a proper mode.


Survey3/4/08 1:20 PM
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Minnow,
JD is right. We have not seen one shred of scriptural proof from you or anybody else that sprinkling or pouring was the proper mode for baptism.

Secondly, JD is correct that the consecration of the priest was not done in a river but in the temple of the Lord. So the purpose of Jesus' baptism was for another reason.

Do you have ironclad scriptural support for your position.


Survey3/4/08 10:04 AM
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So if it applies to the believer, how mich the more it applies to the non-believer.

If God works in you and through you as a believer in the matter of sanctification, does he not work in the heart of the non-beiever to bring him to salvation.

If it takes the power of God to do his will, why does it not take the power of God to bring one to salvation. What makes you think that the lost unregenerate man has it within himself to save himself.

You seem to hedge around in giving God glory for his salvation. Why?


Survey3/4/08 8:51 AM
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JD,

Do you believe it is God which worketh
in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure? (Phil. 2:13)

Do you believe it is the will of the Father that you believe on Christ?

(John 6:28-29) "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29. Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

(John 6:40) "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

So if it not God who works in you to will and to do of his good pleasure, then salvation is not of the Lord, but of yourself.

That is the main difference I have with you JD. You are not willing to recognize that salvation is totally and completely a work of God and to give Him all the glory and credit. Is it worng to give God ALL the glory for His salvation?


Survey3/4/08 7:40 AM
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JD, for once I agree with you.

Secondly uou stated a strong argument to the effect that the cleansing and consecration of the priest was done in the temple/tabernacle, and not down by the riverside. Very good point.


Survey3/3/08 6:03 PM
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That will blow the socks of any dispensationalist who believes in two plans of salvation. They claim only one, FAITH, but they believe in two faiths, one for the OT and another for the NT. "Abraham did not know the name, but he knew the Person and he was glad." I like that Mr. J.

Christ was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world by the decree of God. It was a done deal, however it didn't come to fruition until he died on Calvary, shed his precious blood, rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven to make a once and for all atonement for sin.


Survey3/1/08 8:59 AM
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What I find interesting is that infralapsarianism won over supralapsarianism at the Council of Dort.

From what I gather, supralapsarianism is the belief that by decree of the fall, God choose who he will save and chose who will be reprobate (double predestination). Infralapsarianism is the belief that by decree of the fall God chose who he will save (particular redemption) and the rest are passed over. Hypercalvinist tend to be supralapsarians, but not all supralapsarians are hypercalvinist.

Many will take Romans 9:17 to mean that God chose Pharaoh specifically for the sole purpose of sending him to Hell. All this verse is saying is that God raised him up for a sovereign purpose of hardening his heart "that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth."

Man by nature of the fall is ALREADY condemned. Question is, is the work of redemption specific or general. If it is general, then the God's plan of redemption actually failed in what it was to accomplish. If it is specific, then it accomplished exactly what it was intended for and that was to save "his people from their sins." It didn't say the "whole world", but "his people" those that the Father hath given him.


Survey2/29/08 8:44 PM
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(Act 2:38-39) "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

The promise it appears is the gift of the Holy Ghost (see verse 33). The Holy Ghost was given on condition of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. The same promise was made to their posterity on the same condition of repentance and faith. Baptism was not the grounds of the promise, that would make salvation based on works and not by grace.

Also, it might be well to point out in verse 41. "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."

It says "they that gladly received his word were baptized" it does not say they and their children were baptized. Only those who received his word were baptized.

That is just my opinion.


Survey2/29/08 7:34 PM
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Isn't it not true that the most reformed view the sacraments as a MEANS of grace. Means is a process whereby grace is imparted to the recepient. That definition was derived from you guys over the last few years I have been here. So no, it is not a caracature. Protestants want to consider sacraments as a MEANS then they need to accept the meaning is carries.

Ihave heard it said many times here that baptism is a MEANS of grace, that the Lord's Supper is a MEANS of grace. If it not a means, but only a symbolic representations, or a sign and seal, then it needs to be considered an ordinance, not a sacrament. The sacraments of the RCC are a means to salvation. They must partake of all of them to earn their entrance to heaven.


Survey2/29/08 6:01 PM
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The difference between a sacrament and an ordinance is that a sacrament imparts grace or is a means of grace, whereas an ordinance is a symbol or a memorial of the grace already bestowed.

For examplle, the sacrament of baptism imparts the new birth on infants. The sacrament of communion is the actual literal eating the flesh of Christ and literally drinking his blood. However if these are both considered ordinances, then baptism symbolizes the spiritual union between Christ and his church. The ordinance of the Lord's supper memorializes the sacrificial death of Christ. Remember the words of Christ "This do in rememberance of me".

The sacramental system was derived from the Roman Catholic Church and caried over into Protestantism. That is one area where the reformers never completely broke away from the Romish traditions.


Survey2/27/08 5:30 PM
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Minnow, keep in mind that it was also the Lord who committed a man to death for picking up sticks on the sabbath.

Keep in mind that the ceremonial laws (of which circumcision was a part of) as well as the dietary laws were fullfilled in Christ and done away with.

It is quite aparrent that the Lord Jesus was baptized on the first day of his public ministry. The number 8 is the number of a new beginning. Just for your info. So would it be conceivable tht one should be baptized on the 8th day after spiritual birth and not physical birth.

Also the Abrahamic covenant was two fold, national and spiritual. Circumcision of the flesh was a sign and seal of the national physical covenant whereby the circumcision of the heart was a sign of the spiritual covenant. Not all Israel (national) is of Israel (spiritual).


Survey2/27/08 4:06 PM
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jago wrote:
DB What is baptism for?
I'll agree with what Dr. Phil intimated. (Well kinda sorta) It is an outward sign or ordinance of an inward conversion. The circumcision of the heart is an act of God, not of man. It is an outward testimony of what God did inside.

Question arises, when does the circumcision of the heart take place? Arminians claim it is when they act of their own free will while they are dead in tresspasses and sin, say a sinner's prayer to invite Jesus in their heart.

Reformed claim it is a socereign act of God implanting a spiritual birth into one of his elect, thereby quickening the spirit, thus enabling him to come willingly to a saving knowledge of Christ as his Savior, Redeemer and Lord. This circumcision of the heart is manifested in repentance and saving faith.

Another question. Is an infant able to manifest those outward signs of a circumcised heart?


Survey2/27/08 2:51 PM
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Dr. Phil,

The only problem is that there are numerous references to Jesus being called both God and Savior. Jesus also said that "I and my Father are one" meaning one in essence. So thus when clear passages are presented, it cannot be questioned by methods of hermeneutics or interpretation. It is black and white.

Paedobaptism is mainly arguement from silence. The covenant of works and the covenant of grace are not the same and neither are its stipulations. The sign of the covenant of grace is the circumcision of the heart and the seal is preservation by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.


Survey2/27/08 1:04 PM
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DJC49,

Apologies there mate. It is all Yamil's fault for the confusion. I think you and I can agree he is a good one to balame for this.

Then I guess I need to readdress the question to Mr. J.

__________________
Mr. J.

If you want to be consistent with the regulative principal, then you need to show me clearly from scripture where God commanded infants to be baptized. We are not talking circumcision, but a clear proof reference from scripture where God explicitly commanded parents to baptize their infants.

I am sure you will have no problem doing so, so it shouldn't take you too long.

Remember, what He did not command, He forbids.
___________

Dr. Phil, stick to comparing apples to apples. I love you brother, but you are wanting to compare apples to oranges. Stick to baptism. I'm sure it will be no problem for any paedobaptist to find a multituide of verses where God commanded parents to baptize their infants in the New Testament.


Survey2/27/08 12:01 PM
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DJC49,

If you want to be consistent with the regulative principal, then you need to show me clearly from scripture where God commanded infants to be baptized. We are not talking circumcision, but a clear proof reference from scripture where God explicitly commanded parents to baptize their infants.

I am sure you will have no problem doing so, so it shouldn't take you too long.

Remember, what He did not command, He forbids.


Survey2/26/08 1:01 PM
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DJC49,

It looks like he can't see the forest of God's plan because he is stadning too close to the tree of dispensationalism. When you are so confined, you can't see the clear picture. They accuse others of perverting the word of God, yet they are the ones dealing out the word of God like a card game. This one for you, this one for you and this one for me. They pick and choose which cards they want to play with and discard the rest. He is the one who maintains that the gospel books are not written to the church. Well, there goes the record of Christ dying on the cross for sinners. There goes the promise of redemtion of all who the the Father draws to him and comes to him in repentance and faith. There goes the promise of his return to gather his elect.

I also find it convenient that they apply all the promises of blessings to the church and the promises of tribuation and judgment to the Israel of God. And they accuse the Calvinist of being the elitist.


Survey2/26/08 10:34 AM
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JD wrote:
He is not one who is "glorified", suggesting a beginning, in the eternal state, he is the one who glorifies. He is God, DB! What do you not understand about that? Are you suggesting that he was eternally man?
I do not understand your argument. He was "made" in the likeness of man, but he is the eternal God!
I think you are exposing a very uninformed view of God, Christ, and all things spiritual! I am looking at you now in a whole new light!
I have made my sace JD that He was always the eternal Son of God. I made my case that he became man on earth to suffer the sin debt of sinners and is now glorified in Heaven. What is so hard to understand about that? I have made my case that God the Holy Spirit is eternal as well. How does that dishonor God or present an "uninformed" view of God.

1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

When Christ returns, will he come in the form of a man, or in the form of a spirit. How can we see a spirit.

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are 3 "in one". God is a Trinity manifesting Himself in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.


Survey2/26/08 10:13 AM
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JD wrote:
You need to ask yourself how the Father answered this prayer of the Son.
He was restored to his glorified state. Something which you seem to deny that he had to start with. He was glorified from the beginning. Do you deny that also? You are presenting passages that prove my points. Your isogesis is killing your defense.
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