John UK wrote:
Yes I certainly agree with your conclusions Charles.
It seems clear to me that we are predestinated unto:
#1 good works
#2 the image of Christ
#3 eternal salvation
So no matter what the verse is saying, if we are predestinated unto one, we are predestinated unto the other. Either way, the choice is Jesus's not ours. For our own nature is in rebellion against God, and needs subduing before we will ever consider our lost estate.
It is amazing grace that saved a wretch like me, and it was not merely a grace that was "willing" to save me, but a grace that "covenanted" to save me - despite myself!

like me you have a firm grasp of the finer points of theology

i preached it is appointed once for a man to die and then judgement past a few people last week, the great thing with using scripture from the off i find is how much attention people take of it, it makes em stop for a moment

ive been listening to gil rugh on sa recently, jolly good, do you know he sounds like the actor clint eastwood ?

Mike wrote:
to his disciples, who are believers. What has he chosen them to do? That they (his disciples) "should go and bring forth fruit..." You have to stretch the verse, read into it to find it refers to their salvation. But isn't that what "high theology" does? Stretch?

John UK wrote:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life

now in the original greek verily verily means truly truly to emphasis the point Jesus is making he is saying make no mistake, with a certainty I tell you, in the original text everlastingf means forever, eternity,
mmm not at all easy to grasp
here is another :

John 15v16

Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you,

this is of course hugely difficult to grasp and very controversial, Jesus seems to be saying that He chose us, not the other way around ! I have had endless debates (with arminists) but one needs to work thru the difficult theology to progress !

For our american brethren i shall briefly expand, they are a large
300 000 strong romany gypsy community within the UK said to have originally come from India.

Abstinence before marriage is the norm and it is considerd dishonourable to have relations before marriage.

This is universallly held within the community

It was wonderful to see the anticipation of the young people on the marriage day and how the institution of marriage was honored by the community.

They generally get married quite young and the ladies have the most amazing beautiful dresses which the family has saved for and to judge by the appearance must cost an amazing sum of money it is a real special day for the familys i have never seen anything like that in my life. What came across for me was the enthusiasm for marriage by all parties the importance of it and the chastidy of the young men and women before the marriage estate very inspiring.
They all got married in church of course and seemd to be catholic but i dont know about this.

It seems a bit of a rareified question but does anybody know if there are reformed or protestant travelers ?

Mike wrote:
I have a chunk of wood from Noah's ark, John. It cannot be proven or disproven that it is a chunk of wood from Noah's ark. So it will forever remain just a possibility that it is from Noah's ark.
I might be persuaded to sell you a piece of it.

SANTIAGO, Chile — It’s unheard of: Gay men holding hands and lesbians kissing each other on prime-time television, brought to you by conservative and Catholic presidential candidates.

they had the elections this january and this was part of the election campaign

''and Alianza Por Chile's successful strategy to exploit the left-wing agenda. In order to win middle class votes, Piñera supported the civil union between homosexuals and the distribution of morning-after pills. ''

Frank Dombrosky wrote:
Pres. Bush was not perfect. He made mistakes. On the war, however, he had my complete support.

Mike wrote:
Hey Jim, Bush isn't president anymore. Relax. You may now turn attention to bumbling Obama. How about that Navy "Corpse-man"? The ten thousand killed by a Kansas tornado? (actually 12) His "57 states"? "spread the wealth around"? "John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith.."? His "typical white person" grandmother? His statement that "Israel is a strong friend of Israel's"? The "Special Olympics" comment about his bowling skills? Finally, but certainly not last, the really thoughtful "On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes -- and I see many of them in the audience here today --"?
You need to update your bumble list.

John UK wrote:
I rather think that in heaven, we will see BG with more converts at his side than any other man in history. And it's not easy for me to say that.

Wayne M. wrote:
I know of a christian who was converted at a BG crusade (although I don't think BG was there himself) decades ago and he has attended church faithfully ever since. So I wouldn't be too quick to judge that situation.

Dont be to quick to judge ? Yes I will, we are told to, if you cant spot false teaching you are not in posesion of the truth, the elect cannot be deceived so if you are deceived then you arent one of the elect
How can anyqone be 'genuinely converted' as you say if they are 'genuinely converted' to a false gospel ?

Yes we all know BG converts go to church - so what ? people go to church for years all sorts of reasons it does not mean their converted, they might be tho

In my own experience of BG converts - guilty until proved innocent, expect the worst !

just a thought wrote:
Bush is a universalist, he believes all roads/religions lead to Christ.That is not what the bible teaches.

ex-tab man wrote:
Well you can't say your Sovereign God didn't send a warning!

Frank Dombrosky wrote:
So, let's remove David from the Bible since he did the same thing.

Michael Hranek wrote:
prince charles
If REVIVAL depended upon you and me...NONE, ABSOLUTELY NONE

Michael Hranek wrote:
prince charles
Question is it really always the other guy's fault? Could it be we have
not been and done what He has for us to be and do?

Every family man has a ministry straight of, the family. Thats what all men should put foremost we have to work on the immediate things first like me and then the family, if we can get that right then God will give us more responsibility - I wonder how many believers see it that way ?
Even in the secular world we are expected to get our own house in order before being permitted wider things

I know it sounds like Im blaming others but its not how i think ive only been a believer for 3 years or so but i was a seeker of sorts for many years and looking back over the years there is so much i was told by well meaning people that was just plain wrong or foolish or ignorant or worse yet they really thought they had something to offer me but they did not.

Frank Dombrosky wrote:
I am disappointed at the comments made about C. I. Scofield. They contain little depth and tend to resemble the type of silly gossip found among old women with nothing better to do.

Alan H wrote:
BTW, Neil, Spurgeon came under conviction for smoking cigars and repented.
PC, Roll ups are very bad for you too!

Yes the social side of smoking is an issue, i dont hide it, but i dont smoke around the brethren unless im in my own home and its purely social ie nothing to do with the gospel, reason being not to tempt my brother or cause them to sin or discourage them but people know i smoke.
Its not an issue with my smoking infidel friends, in fact it seems to put them at ease if i share a smoke with them (but not endlessly smoking habitually) just the one

non smoking friends raise eyebrows at first but i use it to talk about the real Gospel explaining what the real criteria is for getting into heavan not as the infidels imagine.