And I have nothing and I can do nothing apart from Jesus.

And He gives the needed grace to those who obey His command to abide in Him. Without Him we can do nothing, but if one with the Spirit finds he can do nothing, it's probably because he is disobeying the command to ABIDE. Those who CONTINUE and ABIDE in Him know Him; they are known by Him; and they receive and walk in the grace He gives.

Be ye perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect.

It seems to me that one might not be inclined to do their own part if one believes that they can add absolutely nothing to their walk of holiness. Does that make it harder to stay pure I wonder, when folks believe that it's only a matter of Jesus making them pure, instead of understanding and trusting/obeying the scriptural commandment to "keep oneself pure"?

It's an honest question to think about. Maybe some find it difficult to obey the Lord's command to walk in holiness. Would perhaps understanding doctrine in a more Christ-honoring way help us to be separate from the world?

He that has this hope in him purifies himself as he is pure.

If you belong to him don't believe the lie that you have to keep falling into porn. You have an alternative: Abide in Jesus.

TULIP

I have absolutely nothing against Neo-gnostic/Calvinist/Fatalism doctrine EXCEPT THAT IT POISONS EVERYTHING, and it does that while attempting to honor God, but failing at that too.

Assuming you are sincere for a moment, I'll tell you... In my opinion you should STAY AWAY FROM WESTCOTT & HORT. Read a KJV.

Of course he doesn't "need" my help. Everything I would bring to the table is a direct gift from Him anyway, so if if I were called to participate in STANDing (which obviously we all are) then that would never mean that any of us "helped" God.

Hey Lurker... I think you might have misunderstood my antagonism against false doctrine for having a chip on my shoulder. That's OK, I can see how that could happen, as your interpretive framework and mine are at completely different ends of the spectrum. (That said, I do appreciate your comments on the Jude and Romans references.)

If you're really interested in dealing with chips on people's shoulders, may I suggest you direct your attention to a number of dear confused neo-gnostics who have pronounced me to be a servant of Satan, etc. Perhaps you could assist some of those nice folks with their shoulder chips? Just a thought.

In all seriousness though, I think I will take this opportunity to encourage each reader of this thread to:

We ought to put down our stakes in in Romans 8: "For if you live after the flesh ye shall die." and "As many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God".

And in 1 John 2: "These things have I written unto you THAT YE SIN NOT. IF anyone sins (not WHEN!), we have an advocate."

It baffles me that those who claim to be led by the Spirit of God are not zealous to be holy. He is the Spirit of Holiness. Jesus came to DESTROY the works of the devil. If the Son sets you free, ye shall be FREE INDEED! Why it is that people want to talk about how sinful they are is beyond me -- don't you want to glory in Christ who is giving you freedom from sin?

Mike: It seems to me that one who is born again cannot lose his eternal life. If he could, it wouldn't be eternal life.

Unprofitable Servant: And your problem is that you need more practice guessing other people's problems? I never said belief = salvation. That was Frank below, not me. I would be the last person to say that, because I'm fully aware of the "believers" in Luke 8:13 and John 8:31 who were not saved, like the demons of James.

John UK: Yes, you're right. I didn't give my interpretation intentionally as my purpose is to see if you understand how these texts do not contradict each other. To answer your question: All truly born again are believers; but not all "believers" are truly born again.

And I didn't once say, nor do I believe, that the Luke 8:13 "believers" are "true believers who were born again", as you suggested that I believe. *THE LORD KNOWS THOSE WHO ARE HIS* and *LET EVERYONE WHO NAMES THE NAME OF CHRIST DEPART FROM INIQUITY*. But the fact remains, that according to the scripture, just like the branches *IN THE VINE* that were *BROKEN OFF AND CAST INTO THE FIRE*, they did at one time have some form of His life in them BUT YET THEY FAILED TO ABIDE (continue in His word). IF YOU CONTINUE IN MY WORD...THEN YOU ARE MY DISCIPLES INDEED.

Yes.

Regarding texts... I don't feel a need to pass your judgement. Frankly, it doesn't matter to me.

However, I did post four verses a while back that should make you think about what Jesus meant when saying such things as "these believe for a while and then fall away" and (to those who BELIEVED on him) "IF you continue in my word THEN you are my disciples indeed". I haven't heard anything about these other than that I supposedly quoted them out of context.

Well, I didn't quote them out of context, and I suggested that you choose as wide a context as you deem necessary, as it will not change what he said.

The burden of proof is on those who disagree with what Jesus said in those texts to explain what they think he is saying. That said, an honest evaluation, without passing through an interpretive filter such as neo-gnosticism, will show that he meant simply what he said.

So the question really is "How can YOU square what the Lord said in Luke 8:13 and John 8:31 with John 5:24, John 6:39, John 6:44, and 1 John 5:13?"

That's what I'm asking. So far I've heard (a) Dead silence and (b) Accusations of scripture twisting.

To be clear, I did not mean that John UK or others here are not qualified to judge me, but others who are less heretical are...

My comment was entirely in the sense of 1 Cor. 4:3-5.

Sorry for the offense, not intended.

On the other hand, Ches8 and other neo-Gnostics have been intentionally offensive, judging me as a servant of Satan.

Frank: I didn't say you quoted verses out of context. That was what I was accused of.

My point is that by not being able or willing to deal with the verses I provided other than opposing with other verses (which we probably would both agree cannot really contradict) you demonstrated that you likely cannot deal with them.

Amen to your second paragraph.

You're wrong about John 3:16, you misquoted it. God was very precise in what He said that day: "...SHOULD NOT PERISH, but have eternal life."

Your mistake is assuming it's one or the other. The Bible teaches both that His true believing children WILL NOT CAN NOT perish AND that some believe for a time and fall away.

There's a way to understand it all together and it will fit beautifully for you when He opens it up for you. Just pray about it! He is good!

So now we have a typical knee-jerk fear reaction against the fact that man is given by God the ability to repent if he so choose. Of course, this ability to obey God's commandment to repent is demonized today by neo-Gnostics who consider man being given the ability by God to obey the gospel as being "Christ+", as John UK would say.

To say that God giving to all men the ability to repent is adding to Christ is a complete lie.

Some (not all) who marvel at the saving power of the Doctrines of Grace marvel like that because they are still living in sin, so naturally they say "Why me Lord?"

To these I say, Be not deceived, God is not mocked.

Frank: Thank you for your offer -- I know it's well intentioned. Trouble is I know you are not ready to give guidance on this topic as you cannot explain what seems like a contradiction to you (the verses I provided and the verses regarding eternal life) WITHOUT HAVING TO RESORT TO MAKING JESUS *NOT* SAY WHAT HE ACTUALLY *DID* SAY.

PTL, He has opened my understanding on this topic in the past year so I'm not looking for the help of man. Thanks anyway.

John UK: One word regarding calling me "Arminian": Ironic.

You have no problem labeling me without knowing anything of my background other than I've been saying here STOP FEARING MAN AND LET GOD SPEAK.

So go on believing I'm the devil's servant as someone said earlier.

BTW, You're on thin ice slandering like that. Have you never read, WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE ANOTHER'S SERVANT?

I understand that you are having trouble reconciling these wonderful passages you provided from John with those I provided. I used to have trouble like this too when I was a gnostic like yourself, so I entirely understand...

The key is to submit yourself to His word -- stop fearing your dead hero and you will be teachable by Him to no longer have this trouble you have today.

I challenge you to HONESTLY consider the implication of:

- "for a WHILE BELIEVE, and in time of temptation FALL AWAY." (That's Jesus in Luke 8:13).

- Also, "to the Jews that BELIEVED on Him, Jesus said 'IF you CONTINUE IN MY WORD, THEN you are my disciples INDEED...'" (That's Jesus in John 8:31).

- "He THAT OVERCOMES, I will not BLOT OUT HIS NAME OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE." (That's Jesus in Rev 3:5 -- the clear implication is those who don't overcome will be blotted out.)

- "If a man ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch...and withered...and burned". (John 15:6, Jesus)

Gnosticism has its argument with Jesus. Who are you going to believe? Jesus or Calvin? It's up to you. Thank the Lord it's not "fated" as the Gnostics teach.

AND NEVER FEAR! THE LORD *WILL* GIVE GRACE TO HIS CHILDREN TO CONTINUE TO ABIDE. JUST DON'T BE PRESUMPTUOUS!