"GK,
I have heard you ask Abigail several times now, "Are you a Mormon?". Yet, she does not respond. Why is this such a difficult question for her? It must be concluded in the affirmative, otherwise she would deny it outright. Then again, she must also be aware of the implications of her answering in the affirmative. If she does answer in the affirmative, she has been around obviously to know where the next series of questions will lead, and that is straight to the divinity of Christ.
Not only that, but what will be the impact of denial on her sinless perfection? Can she remain sinless and lie? It is easier on her conscience to remain silent and stay in the battle for error, polygamy, and the Mormon way. Thus, in her mind, the end justifies the means.
This will result in interesting conclusions with regard to those who have hitched their theology train to hers. And so we wait for an affirmation, a denial, or more evasive manuevers with ambiguous language.
____

What false presumptions you make, R.K. You could read my prior posts and the posts of others to know the answer.

No, I am not Mormon and have never been affiliated with the cult. Space on comments is the reason I have not answered before.

Heb 12:4-14 You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin (v4). is speaking of persecution being the chastening and scourging that God uses to bring in His sons the peacable fruit of righteousness (v11) and make them partakers of His holiness (v10). Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: (v14)

"Witness" and "Martyr" are translated from the same Greek word, "martus" literally or figuratively; by anal. a "martyr".

Though [Jesus] were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; (Ch 5:8). How much more the many brethren that are being conformed to His image must learn obedience through the things God permits them to suffer. Although persecution is inflicted by wicked men, they do so by the permission of God for the perfecting of the many sons that Christ will bring to glory.

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings (Ch 2:10).

"if Christians are meant to be incapable of sinning,how do you explain Hebrews "
____

I did not say Christians are meant to be incapable of sinning. I said Christians are to strive to cease from sin. They are to strive to be like Jesus Christ.

Christian—follower of Jesus Christ; Christlike.

Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest **keep them from the evil**.

Saint—undefiled from the world. Sacred, physically pure, morally blameless, consecrated.

Holy—Same

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, **holy**, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be **saints**: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be **saints**, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the **saints**,

Jerome said, “God has bestowed us with free will. We are not necessarily drawn either to virtue or vice. For when necessity rules, there is no room left either for d**nation or the crown.” (Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, p. 62, published by Truth in Heart)

Irenaeus said, “By means of our first parents, we were all brought into bondage by being made subject to death…But man, being endowed with reason, and in this respect similar to God, having been made free in his will, and with power over himself, is himself his own cause that sometimes he becomes wheat, and sometimes chaff…’Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good deeds’…And ‘Why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not do the things that I say?’…All such passages demonstrate the independent will of man…For it is in man’s power to disobey God and to forfeit what is good.”

"Jesus said, 'If any will do [His will]... he shall know' [John 7:17]. The same principle holds good in all human attainment. It is only he who has accepted in adoring submission and obedience the command 'Be perfect' [Matthew 5:48] who can hope to know what the perfection is that God asks and gives. Until the Church is prostrate before God, seeking this blessing as her highest good, it will be no wonder if the very Word, instead of being an attraction and a joy, is a cause of apprehension and anxiety, of division and offense."

" You simply cannot teach what Pelagian teaches and not consider yourself a Pelagian heretical follower. Sorry!"
____

Pelagius was condemned as a heretic by the Catholic Church.

Pelagius was in perfect agreement with the Early Church Fathers on the doctrine of freewill.

Justin Martyr wrote, "Every created being is so constituted as to be capable of vice and virtue. For he can do nothing praiseworthy, if he had not the power of turning either way…unless we suppose man has the power to choose the good and refuse the evil, no one can be accountable for any action whatever." (Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, P. 61, pushiched by Truth in Heart

Tertullian said, "No reward can be justly bestowed, no punishment can be justly inflicted, upon him who is good or bad by necessity, and not by his own choice." (Ibid, p. 61)

Augustine said, "they that would not come [to Christ], ought not to impute it to another, but only to themselves, because, whey they are called, it was in the power of their free will to come (Ibid. p. 62)

"Sorry Abigail,
If the old Adamic nature (the old man) were truly dead, you would no longer sin."
_____

Again!! Don't you believe scripture?

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? Rom 6:1)

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Rom 6:2)

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Rom 6:3)

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Rom 6:4)

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Rom 6:5)

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Rom 6:6)

For he that is dead is freed from sin. Rom 6:7)

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Rom 6:8)

Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Rom 6:9)

For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Rom 6:10)

Repent!!

" It is so obvious that you have been possessed with the devil or some evil spirit that has taken over your mind. You proclaim how you are striving for a sinless perfection, and yet, it is obvious that you violate the first three commandments, and the ninth and tenth commandments. For all I know you are breaking four through eight as well, but you have this crazy idea that just because you don't violate the 7th commandment you are somehow filled with sinless perfection. Abigail, there are lots of people who don't break the 7th commandment but break all the rest."
_____

Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

Simply because almost everyone on this board is Calvinist and disagrees with any doctrine other than Calvinism does not mean that I am the only person in the world that believes the truth of sinless perfection. You are guilty of the things you are accusing me of—I am not violating the commandments. You make wild accusations with nothing but straw to back your claims.

"1) the twisting of God's word for ones own pride of decision, 2) finding self-will as sovereign over God, 3) exalting of ones spiritual deadness thinking it able to create life, 4) someone calling God a liar when He said "of His own will begat He us" (His own, alone, will)and 5) someone thinking that Christ, reigning even now with all power in heaven and earth, is impotent to save that which He will. That is abominable"
_____

Pride of decision? Choose you this day whom you will serve (Jos 24:15)…For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: (Pro 1:29) …choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (Deut 30:19)

Of His own will He begat us when we humbled ourselves, repented of our sins, and accepted the atoning blood of Jesus Christ for remission of our sins. It is not God's will that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Spiritual deadness is only quickened by the power of the indwelling Holy Ghost that the Lord gives to those that seek Him and give their lives to Him for His purpose and glory.

" I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. (Gal 2:20)
He (or she) who has ears to hear, let him (or her) hear."
_____

I am not sure what your post means. But if you are saying that being crucified with Christ is merely judicial you are sadly mistaken.

Being crucified with Christ is death of the old Adamic nature with the indwelling Christ reigning as Lord in our mortal bodies by the power of the Holy Ghost, leading in paths of righteousness and holiness.

Mirror wrote:
I guess, you see yourself my
opponent.
So no love huh.
Hebrews 11 comes to mind
preacherjond wrote
"Abigail, the Penecostals have lied to you, and led you down a false road, misinterpreting the scriptures and filling your mind with heresies. I pray that your eyes will be opened to the truth, in Jesus Christ's name I ask it, Amen
Another opponent?
listen up wrote
Hey everyone, you all have given this woman ample scripture to refute her false belief, it's time to put it in the hands of the Lord, let us all lift her in prayer and ask God the grant her insight.
Another opponent
Lurker wrote
He (or she) who hath ears to hear, let him (or her) hear.
Another opponent
Walt wrote
" Abigail wrote, "Why you are comparing me to Finney, I know not."
Because it was declared in the article, "Charles Grandison Finney was a heretic!"
Another opponent
kevin
Amen, sister Abigail
A supporter, yea
R. K. Borill
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection."
All Glory Be To God

Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

Mat 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

God is perfecting the Saints to grow into the image of the Lord Jesus Christ but you will never even start with your sinning religion. Jesus Christ was sinless and He left the Holy Ghost to dwell within the Saints to conform us to His image. God predestinated His Saints to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. You are usurping the name, Christian, by failing to repent of your sins and strive to be like Him.

Jesus prayed that we would be one in Him, even as He and the Father are one. Sin is of the devil, and all who promote and condone sin are followers of the devil. The devil was a liar and murderer from the beginning.

Eph 4:3 Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; Eph 4:11)

For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Eph 4:12)

Mirror, mirror on the wall
Joh 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
sticks and stones will break my bones
great verse, but as you so often do
with verses its out of CONTEXT
_____

You are reflecting yourself. Everyone knows who you are!

All verses are out of context if they are posted by the opponent.

"Hey everyone, you all have given this woman ample scripture to refute her false belief, it's time to put it in the hands of the Lord, let us all lift her in prayer and ask God the grant her insight. We have done all we can, let us dust off our feet and go to the next town, there are plenty of Abigails awaiting [folks lost in false teachings]..."
_____

God sees your intent of heart in your contradictory remarks about suggesting prayer and dusting off your feet.

You nave not given Scripture to refute the Word of God I have posted. You have argued contending for sin and your approval of sin.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? Rom 6:1)

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Rom 6:2)

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Rom 6:3)

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Rom 6:4)

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Rom 6:5)

"Abigail, the Penecostals have lied to you, and led you down a false road, misinterpreting the scriptures and filling your mind with heresies. I pray that your eyes will be opened to the truth, in Jesus Christ's name I ask it, Amen."
___

The Pentecostals that I know of teach the same thing you teach. No one has led me down a false road. I believe the Word of God.

You can find scriptures to defend sin if that is what you are looking for. People can make the Bible say anything they want it to say by reading between lines, finding examples, misappropriation, or misinterpretation. But believing what it states in black and white, people refuse to accept, because the gate is strait, the way narrow and few there be that find it. People do not want the discipline of holiness, therefore they make loopholes for themselves to their own loss. They make the Bible accomodate their own way of life because they do not want to repent.

kevin wrote:
Mirror, mirror on the wall, Abigail was commenting on what Truthful posted at 12:25.
So blast away at Truthful.
I take note that you quoted Gal. 5:14,
"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
Is this what john calvin was thinking when he had Michael Servetus burn at the stake?
Was johnnie calvin thinking on those verses of the Epistles of John in 1553?
Before you calvies/reformies cast the first stone, check out the background of your deceptive leader.
Oh by the way john calvins actions "WHERE SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE SINNER!!!!
One more thought was john calvin thinking about Yahshua's Sermon on the Mount, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect."
Joh 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
Kevin

"Abigail, I agree, but where do you get your ideas of sinless perfection?"
_____

From the holy Word of God. From the folowing Scriptures and many more.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. (1Jo 3:6)

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. (1Jo 3:7)

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (1Jo 3:8)

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1Jo 3:9)

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (1Jo 3:10)

For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. (1Jo 3:11)

Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. (1Jo 3:12)

Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you. (1Jo 3:13)

1Pe 1:16 ...Be ye holy; for I am holy.

" Abigail wrote, "Why you are comparing me to Finney, I know not."
Because it was declared in the article, "Charles Grandison Finney was a heretic!"
____

You and your Calvinist friends say Finney and John Wesley were heretics because they did not agree with your perverted doctrines and the WCF. The Word of God, the Holy Bible, KJV, is my manual, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

You do not believe the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ and you condemn those who do. The words of the Lord Jesus Christ have become nothing more than irrelevant trivia in the modern apostatized churches.

The strait gate and narrow way that few find has become a forgotten memory. The churches with their ornate portals and hirelings (hired preachers) are trying to serve God and the mammon of unrighteousness, and are nothing more than extensions of the world under a façade of Christianity. The pew warmers are unrepentant sinners that are encouraged in their sins by the highly paid orators that spout their philosophies and ideologies.

The churches are full of adulterers, murderers, liars, cheats, and thieves that claim the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. Judgment Day will be a sad day for the many that were deceived by the deceivers.

"…FAITH in Christ Jesus is imputed unto us as rightesouness,"

"Finney was insisting that all men and women have a natural ability to obey God. Sin results from wrong choices, not from a fallen nature. According to Finney, sinners can freely reform their own hearts, and must do so themselves if they are to be redeemed. Once again, this is sheer Pelagianism...Charles Grandison Finney was a"
_____

Why you are comparing me to Finney, I know not. However, it is doubtful that Finney said sinners can freely reform their own hearts, and must do so themselves if they are to be redeemed.
If you call repentance redeeming yourself, you are speaking against the word of God because we are commanded to repent and turn from our evil ways before we can receive salvation.

Adams sins were not imputed to his progeny, each person is accountable for their own sins and will be judged according to their own actions. We were born with an Adamic nature, which is prone to sin, and therefore we were sold under sin and need a Savior and Redeemer. We need the infilling of the Holy Ghost which is the power of God to lead us in the paths of righteousness and deliver us from all evil.