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8/5/07 1:43 AM

Fellow Saint

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Professing, Baptized Church Members: How Many Will...

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The terminology "Professing, baptized church members" is actually a human invention. The Bible only knows of baptized believers, thus "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." Church membership in most cases(depends much on the church) is contingent on more than just being a baptized believer.

8/5/07 1:14 AM

Fellow Saint

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New Hampshire: 'Gay' bishop endorses Obama

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Fred, just because we're born again doesn't mean temptations go away. Let God speak to you by his word so you can grow stronger in faith("Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God"), ask God to give you the Holy Spirit for power in your battle against the devil and his attacks(It's a promise-Luke 11:13, Acts 1:8) and learn of the Lord by his word. "Sanctify them by the truth. Thy word is truth." We also have this promise:"Resist the devil and he will flee from you." The devil knows who God's children are and he will of course cause them to doubt or be tempted. Resist him in the power of the Lord and his word. Like Michael the angel said to Satan: "The Lord rebuke thee!" So it goes with the Christian and the church on earth, that we rebuke the devil in the name of the Lord. He has to go. We have God's promise. Believe it. "That wicked one toucheth him not."

8/5/07 12:28 AM

Fellow Saint

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New Hampshire: 'Gay' bishop endorses Obama

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The gay bishop should be removed until he repents and confesses his sins(including homosexual acts).

8/5/07 12:26 AM

Fellow Saint

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Couple welcomes 17th child -- and wants more

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Having a large family is not a "Romish" doctrine, nor an amish doctrine. It's a matter of faith. God commanded, so they believe and appreciate the gift of love and children. God will provide for them. Having a large family is not some kind of unbiblical doctrine. What is an unbiblical doctrine is birth control, abortion, etc. I suppose some make a religion out of it, but does that mean it's wrong to have kids of any number? I don't think so. I think a family should be allowed to have as many kids as they want. The Bible provides good counsel to family matters so they will do just fine and will be guided by the Lord on this. I know of few large families and they have been blessed by the Lord.

8/4/07 1:20 PM

Fellow Saint

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Sounds a little like my testimony, Hopalong...I was at my wits end, given up on life, considering a different faith, etc, but God's word spoke to me and confirmed to me by its testimony the forgiveness of my sins and that God grafted me in again...was I ever joyful to have this testimony without the assistance of any pastor or other person. It was just me and God's word in an empty college dormitory during the Spring Break. And on the second floor, an "upper room" experience for sure!

8/4/07 12:44 PM

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Abigail, I agree with your posts. You attribute the glory to God alone for the works we do in our lives---to carry out his will, etc. Good one!

According to the scriptures if we have the Holy Spirit, he will raise us up on the last day. If he can do that, he can easily do anything else in our lives according to God's will so "not of works that no man may boast."

All the more reason to see to it we have recieved the Holy Spirit according to the promise of Christ and his Apostles(Luke 11:13, Acts 2:38, 8:14-17, 19:3, Romans 8:9-11).

8/4/07 12:11 PM

Fellow Saint

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Abigail, I agree with your posts. You attribute the glory to God alone for the works we do in our lives---to carry out his will, etc. Good one!

8/3/07 8:34 PM

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The parable of the bridgroom and virgins is directly related to Christ(the bridegroom) and the church(the bride). If not, something is wrong. At least that's the way I've heard it is we are the body of Christ(bride) and he's the Bridegroom. Those virgins are either congregations or individual Christians. So yes, many "virgins" today are being left dry and empty of oil and the flame dying by people pushing forth doctrines which keep the Holy Spirit in a bottle, saying you don't need the Holy Spirit like in NT days, he doesn't do that anymore, you're not supposed to ask for the Holy Spirit(Contrary to Christ's promise in Luke 11:13 if you ask the Father he gives the Holy Spirit). Leave out the oil and shortly the engine burns up and is useless. So it goes with the Church. Leave out the Holy Spirit and soon the church is corroded and frozen stiff, unable to do much except appear godly yet denying the power thereof. "Ye shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you."

8/3/07 12:39 PM

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Thanks OSAS.

Hopalong, one more thing before I go. There are many Christians in this world who are in despair because they feel they've goofed up forever because of one failing, sin, or because of a bad day or no good feelings that God isn't concerned for them. These folks do need to know the promises of God about their salvation--grace through faith, walk by faith not sight, confessing sin and promised it's forgiven.

8/3/07 11:52 AM

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Hopalong, thank you. It was quite an exchange of ideas and questions. Lurker presented some good challenges though. Wayne did also. Lurker presented a good case that there may be some(not all though) who may have never been saved because the Lord says He never knew them. This makes Wayne partially correct also about some never being saved. I just don't use that particular verse as a coverall for everything else. I simply leave it like it is--some weren't known by the Lord, others fell from the word, fell from grace, not spared due to unbelief, can be removed from that which is written in the scriptures, etc. Mike proposed something which made me ask more questions about the ES doctrine. It was quite interesting. I've got a busy day so maybe I'll be back again later.

8/3/07 11:43 AM

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Couple welcomes 17th child -- and wants more

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Talk about a quiver full. I know of a family with 22. 17 is getting there.

8/3/07 3:19 AM

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Thanks Lurker for getting back to me. I wanted to answer the last question, but had to wait for somebody..so thanks for coming back and now I need to get to bed, but concerning John 6:39, yes I believe it's true, but not to the ignoring of other scriptures which I have posted showing some as fallen away, denied by Christ if they deny him, and so forth. It's evident some never will have been saved(I will agree with you that much as per Matt. 7:23) while others were not spared because of unbelief, can be removed for tampering with the Scriptures, etc(Rom. 11:20-22; Gal. 5:4; Luke 8:13; Rev. 22:19). I know not all like to be called Calvinist and I respect you there. I'm not an Arminian.

8/3/07 2:47 AM

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Wayne, all scripture is given by inspiration of God, not just a few verses. That's why I"ve put that verse you quoted in context with others. It doesn't prove osas doctrine as truth. The OSAS camp preaches so hard on this, it should be a very obvious doctrine. ALl the Bible says is eternal life, not eternal security. If an Apostle was here today and you brough up the term do you think they'd know what you're talking about? There's no clear teaching that says someone who falls away was never saved. That's an opinion of some commentators.

Lurker, thanks. The ones on the left weren't saved. We're they ever saved? OSAS and Calvinism say no and they may be right here...for this passage anyway, but that's about where it ends. The ones on the right were saved. Yes, some most likely were never saved and will never be saved, while others may get their name taken out of the book of life, fall from grace, fall away from the seed of the word, etc.(See scripture references below). I take them all as they come, since I find it best. One verse doesn't nullify the others.

8/3/07 2:33 AM

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Skirting questions has no respect of theological boundaries, Lurker. It happens much here. Either I missed a post or failed in answering you. Show me where I didn't clarify or answer.
Thanks for acknowledging the loopholes in the ES doctrine. Being honest is good. So for that matter, bring up what I skirted or didn't answer clear enough.

I answered you Wayne. It means what it says, but does not nullify other scriptures with "bad" promises(such as the sower and the seed that fell away, the Galatians that fell away, and those who tamper with the Revelation and get removed from the book of life the holy city and all that's written therin--most likely including that promise of not being cast out) and being spewed out for lukewarmness(Rev 3:16).

8/3/07 2:21 AM

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Thanks Wayne for the info. Paul says by grace we are saved. If one is fallen from grace how are they then saved? Paul acknowledged some in Galatia were fallen from grace(Galatians 5). So logically, applying "By grace are ye saved," some are still saved if fallen from grace? Makes no sense. If you're fallen from something, you're no longer at that location. If grace is here and you fall over there.....how can "by grace are ye saved" even be applicable?
As for John 6:37, it means what it says. And of course, keep it in the context of the rest of scripture. It doesn't say they are omitted from God's authority to remove their names if they tampered with the scriptures(Rev. 22:19), that they wouldn't be denied if they deny Christ(2 Tim. 2:12), etc.

8/3/07 2:13 AM

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Lurker, I haven't ever said anything like that. I have never said everyone is saved who names the Lord. Jesus is right, many who say Lord, Lord, won't make it. It certainly shows OSAS doesn't promise much comfort. People saying lord, lord, going to a church hearing OSAS is promised to you after praying or believing, etc. Doesn't prove much. OSAS folks talk about Jesus just as much as others. So maybe they will be among those, I don't know. We'll see. Jesus taught that not all who say Lord, will enter. Of course, those whom he says are blessed shall enter just as he said(He did not show any favors to those holding to this eternal security doctrine from what I can tell). I don't see how it makes the OSAS doctrine any more true.

8/3/07 1:46 AM

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Galatians 5:4. Christ's parable of the sower also...he described some that fell away(Luke 8:13). By grace are ye saved is what Paul told the Ephesians. Where in the BIble does it say you are saved if fallen from grace(as OSAS would have it)?
God has authority to remove one's place in the book of life and from the holy city and all that's written: Revelation 22:19. If OSAS and Calvinism are true, these verses don't mean what they say can possibly happen.

8/3/07 1:36 AM

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You have presumed wrongly, Wayne. I agree with the basics of the Reformation: Faith Alone, Grace Alone, Christ Alone, Scripture Alone, etc. Pentecostals are right on some things, but not perfect(I agree with the ones opposed to ecumenism and the Roman church). I've had some folks on here assign me a place with the reprobate..and not from Pentecostals. Apparently there are cult followings around Calvin and OSAS theologians.

Mike, the Bible says by grace we are saved. If one is fallen from grace then what? Paul said some were fallen from grace. So OSAS then says it's possible to be saved even if fallen from grace, logically(to keep OSAS logical, I mean).

8/3/07 1:16 AM

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Wayne, if numbers tell the truth and majority means truth and minority means falsehood then Mr.Luther was wrong, so was John Hus, and many others...all the way down to the Lord and the disciples, many leaving Jesus behind because they didn't like his teaching. And they didn't have Matthew Henry to help out. Furthermore, the Bible predicts few in the last days will have faith, many falling for the lies of seducing spirits...many going wrong. Numbers don't matter.If Mr. Henry says You can't fall away yet the Bible says some did(Paul to the Galatians, Jesus in his parable, etc), he's simply and quite possibly wrong no matter who gives the approval. Jesus says a remnant, not a majority, would be saved. This again shows truth is not measured in numbers. If numbers matter then the Roman Catholic Church beats them all--boasting of producing all those great doctors, fathers, and over a billion followers. RCC dogma must be the truth, right? I don't think so.
Mike, even then OSAS says you can't fall away. So it's still a questionable doctrine. It's also said to be careful in not departing from God. If we deny him, he will deny us..and God can blot a name out of the book of life. So it is testified in the scriptures.

8/3/07 12:27 AM

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Many years, Wayne. Round about 20. I can appreciate you suggesting great Bible commentators. Some are better than others, I'd say that much. The Bible also predicts in the last days people would be gathering around teachers so to get their ears tickled..hearing what they like instead of letting conviction rule. From what I can tell of your response to me, you think those kind which get contradicted by simple Bible reading are actually to be esteemed as the right teachers. That won't work on me.

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