I never stated that faith comes after salvation, but is a fruit of the Spirit, that only a regenerated person has. One who is regenerated is not necessarily saved at the point of regeneration, but is quickened by the Holy Spirit because he is dead in tresspasses and sin. Salvation comes upon repentance of sin and faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross. At that point, he is declared justified.

BTW, I wasn't fooled by GLAS, I knew it you the whole time, unless you have a twin who is exactly like you.

Based on the verses I posted, do you agree that a corrupt tree cannot produce god fruit?

You must have missed when I originally posted these verses. 11/29/07 3:47 PM and again 11/29/07 5:27 PM

Read them and weep.

(Mat 7:17-18) "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."

Actually, point 4 is the strongest point I do agree with him on. If one who has been truly converted by the Holy Spirit and given a new heart, their will be a desire for the things of God.There will be a hatred for sin because the Holy Spirit resides in them.

However, if after someone who prays a "sinner's prayer" show absolutely no signs of regeneration, then I would be very skeptical of conversion. If they continue to live in sin and show no remorse or willing to change, then in my opinion, they were never converted.

The glad tidings are for his people to receive the benefits of it. If it would be for the whole world to benefit, then the verse should have been rendered

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save the world from their sins."

Who are "his people"? Since the book of Matthew was written in a Jewish context, is it referring to the Jews only? No, many of the Jews rejected him. Was it of his earthly family, many of them rejected him as well.

His people are those who were given to him by the Father.

We are commanded to preach the gospel to every creature because it is the means whereby his people will hear the good news and repent and believe the gospel.

What is your definition of quicken?

Does it not mean to "give life"?

What passes off as Calvinistic preaching today, even John Calvin would laugh at.

I see you've joined the ad hominem club.

I have no doubt that many of those who call themselves Calvinist today have no idea of what the puritans of old preached. They preached the old time religion of repentance and turning from sin. Preachers like Jonathan Edwards and George Whitfield literally brought the fires of Hell into many of their sermons which the Holy Spirit used to convert many to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Scripture: "Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

You have illustrated the problem of easy believism. Since you do not see men as totally sinful and totally depraved then you do not readily see the grace of God in the salvation of sinners. You do not see the sovereignty of God either. Even the good works of a lost sinner are as filthy rags and will not be worth one iota in attaining heaven. Salvation is soley by the grace of God and is a gift. It cannot be earned or is not a reward for something we do.

Just wondering wrote:
Indian,
I don't get it

(Rom. 3:11) "There is none that understandeth, ***there is none that seeketh after God.***"

(John 6:44) "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

(John 3:3) "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

I have tried that with you and you won't believe scripture anyway.

I've posted verses that say that faith is a fruit of the Spirit.

I've posted verses that say that a corrupt tree cannot produce good fruit.

I agree with your comment, but do you agree that since the unregenerate man does not have the Holy Spirit indwelling in him, does he still have saving faith. Can he produce or even exercise saving faith without the Holy Spirit indwelling in him?

Then you would have to maintain that the unregenerate sinner has love for a holy and righteous God, eventhough he is at enmity with Him. Do you maintain that the unregenerate sinner has joy in his heart for God, has peace with God when he is condemned to a sinners hell.

Is there really any goodness in these people?
Rom 3:10-18 " As it is written, There is NONE righteous, no, not one: 11. There is NONE that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12. They are ALL gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is NONE THAT DOETH GOOD, no, not one.
13. Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14. Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15. Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16. Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17. And the way of peace have they not known: 18. There is no fear of God before their eyes."

How is it then that a depraved, unregenerate sinner can produce the fruits of the Spirit when he does not have the Holy Spirit abiding in him.

Since you don't want me to ask a question or comment onany of the verses I've posted, what's the use. You do not accept the verses I've posted anyhow, so it is a waste of time. You don't believe that faith is a fruit of the Spirit and that a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit, therefore a corrupt tree cannot have saving faith towards God until he has been born of the spirit.

You must compare scripture with scripture, line upon line, precept upon precept, the same way you conclude your pretrib rapture. You want certain passages to specifically say what you want it to say, but you won't search other scripture to find your answer.

Gal. 5 is contrasting the works of the flesh with the fruits of the Spirit. You are specifically looking for a passage that says that faith comes after regeneration. God doesn't always give us the answer you want, but has given us a brain and the Holy Spirit to think about these things and reason it among yourselves.

Uh?

You'll have to pardon my disposition yesterday. I was not in the best of moods after dealing with JD and your constant spamming of post came across as badgering and harrasment and I will not be badgered by you or anybody else.

I do not play games with anyone over the Word of God. If you want to seriously consider the verses and discuss them, I will be happy to do so. This is a DISCUSSION board to share our interpretation of passages and doctrine. This cat and mouse game of yours does nothing for the edification of the saints.

I know one thing for sure, that God will save all who come to Him in repentance and faith. The problem is many of your fundamental baptist bretheren do not believe in preaching repentance to the lost sinner. They will preach a God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life and that you don't hve to repent until after you are saved and just invite Jesus into your heart with a little prayer and you will be OK.

Men of old like Jonathan Edwards who preached "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" was a staunch Calvinist, so was George Whitfield, Joseph Alliene (Alarm to the Unconverted), Richard Baxter (A Call to the Unconverted to Turn and Live) as well as C.H. Spurgeon.
Oh and John Bunyon

When people were converted they were converted by the power of God. We believe that it takes the power of a Holy God to break the chains of bondage from sin whereas many of you believe that you have the power within yourselves to do it and that bondage does not really mean bondage.