It is interesting to see someone explain away passages to suit their fance. I take it then, Romans 3 says that For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, except JD. There is none that seeketh after God, except Yamil. There is none righteous, no not one, except JD and Yamil.

Prophecy tells us that mankind will get worse and worse before the coming of our Lord. Technology is becomming more and more advanved but used to evel and not good. Perverts are getting bolder and bolder praying on young boys and girls. Young people are experimenting with more powerful drugs than ever before. And you say mankind is getting better. MAybe in JD's eutopia, but not in the real world. Strange how even fundamentalist preachers preach on the moral degradation of society, evidently they are not reading your bible.

JD wrote:
It seems they make a stronger case for what I have been saying about justification. Thanks.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

"Where in the Scriptures or anywhere else except the reformed faith is salvation ever defined as "breaking the power of sin"? Good grief! Sanctification of the Spirit is closer to that concept."

Jesus is the Great Redeemer, who redeemed us and purchased our salvation with his own blood. (1 Peter 1:18-19, 1 Cor. 6:20, 1 Cor. 7:23)

Michael Hranek wrote:
Sanctification
DB would you agree that if there is no evidence of a changed life, sanctification, in one who professes to believe in justification by faith such a one may not actually be saved, born again in the first place.?
That would make justification by faith separated from sanctification (growth as a child of God) akin to OSAS just because someone imagines since they've said a prayer they are garenteed heaven?

I would have to say no. I witnessed that from the conversion of my wife recently. When God calls a sinner to salvation, he does not just deliver them from eternal damnation, but gives them a new heart and the indweling of the Holy Spirit to transform their life in Christ. The Holy Spirit will convict them of sin to bring them to hate sin and love holiness. Those whom God justified are predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ. This is not speaking of glorification, but sanctification.

R. K. Borill wrote:
You and Yamil obviously have no idea of the power of sin over the natural man, nor do you know the power that sin has over the will of man.
Sin blinds men, he must be given sight before he can even see the kingdom of God.
Men are servants of sin, i.e., sin is the master of their wills. Christ must break the power of sin before they are willing to come to him. Otherwise, they are UNWILLING and THEY CANNOT.
"No man CAN COME TO ME EXCEPT the Father who hath sent me draw him".

Read your answers once again. I think you meant the opposite. The question was, do you reject...?

Do you firmly reject that justification is the judicial act whereby a sinner is declared pardoned, not based on his own innocence, but that the innocence of God's righteousness was imputed onto the sinner and by faith we believe on that justification.

Then if that be the case why is Rom. 3:11-18 in the present tense.

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

there is none that doeth good

Their throat is an open sepulcher

Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness

Their feet are swift to shed blood

Destruction and misery are in their ways:

And the way of peace have they not known:

There is no fear of God before their eyes.

These verbs are all in the present active tense. Paul was dealing with the present state of man. Mankind hasn't gotten better since the fall, but has gotten worse.

Mat 24:37 "But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Adam disobeyed God and ate of a fruit that was forbidden. As a result, it brought the judgment of death upon him and his posterity. He didn't slaughter innocent babies, he didn't abuse and beat up his wife, he didn't sexually mosest his children, but his sin may seem minor in comparison to other sins by your standards, yet it caused the downfall of the human race.

Sin is still sin JD and is justly punishable by God. Lost sinners are still depraved of any moral goodness that would entitle them to the splendor of Heaven.

Unless one believes that by the fall of Adam, man is in total depravity and does not possess any moral virtue that will save himself, he cannot be saved. He needs to realize that he is lost before he can be saved. Most will agree that all men are sinners, but for the most part, Arminians still see themselves as sinners, but still basically good and not that bad of a sinner.

I am a lttle disappointed by your last response to Michael. He was trying to be as straightforward as he possible can and I think he hit the nail on the head. It is not all about Calvin nor is it all about Arminius, but it is all about Christ.

Little by little I am learning more about the reformed faith after studying and praying over the truths of scripture and have a better understanding of the doctrines of grace. However I see a lack of sincere efforts by the reformed camp to defend their beliefs against the errors of freewillism. I came from the same camp as JD and Yamil, so I can see both sides of these poll questions. I too have many questions and when I see nothing but snippy remarks by the reformed believers, it makes me wonder if you folks really know what you believe what you believe and for the searching pilgrim, it is not edifying.

Spiritually speaking, I can't say I remember of a time, so I would have to say no. I was raised in an RCC church, but I didn't take a strongt interest in the things of religion or God.

2a
(2): lacking power to move, feel, or respond

Remember, they are not my definitions, but that of Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

Do you mean,

1: deprived of life : no longer alive

2a
(2): lacking power to move, feel, or respond

c(1): incapable of being stirred emotionally or intellectually

Dead to you is only soul-sleep and has the power in and of itself to awaken itself. Only God has the power to raise the dead. Only God has the power to quicken the spirit. If the spirit isn't dead, then there would be no reason for quickening. By the way, "quicken" meand to "give life". You don't have to give something life if it is already alive.

If they reject the gospel message, they will perish anyway. So how is it good news to them.

1Co 1:18 "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."

I got ya!

Well, here is the Merriam-Webster Dictionary version.

"dead"
1: deprived of life : no longer alive
2a
(1): having the appearance of death
(2): lacking power to move, feel, or respond
b: very tired
c(1): incapable of being stirred emotionally or intellectually
(2): grown cold

4a
(1): lacking power or effect
(2): no longer having interest, relevance, or significance
b: no longer in use
c: no longer active

Apply any one of those definitions into Eph. 5:1 "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins"

and

Eph 2:5 "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by (grace ye are saved"

Dead is dead. It does not mean separated, it literally means a corpse.

Remember, those are not my definitions, but Merriam-Webster.