prince charles wrote: yes europe does have everything, we can leave manchester airport at 1300 and be on the boat by 1700 local time we tried some different holidays but they werent nearly as good as sailing in greece around the islands its very relaxing and you are independent nobody knows where you are for two or three weeks - greece it really is as good as it seems as they say
Good afternoon, Charles,
One of my fondest memories is Easter morning on a Greek ship approaching Patmos. We gathered with others on the deck for a sunrise worship service, and later toured the monastery/museum, going into the cave where John supposedly was housed in exile, and from which he wrote Revelation. From the cave, there was a beautiful panoramic view of the Aegean Sea.
Mike wrote: I'm not sure I get what you mean, Candle Lit. What does a child learn of his parents' love through an accursed life wrought by them?
Take a parent - child relationship, where the parent suffers so that the child would not have to suffer. What's learned from that? Sacrifice from the parent brings about a bonding that may not occur otherwise, and illustrates what love is to the child.
Love always involves a sacrifice, and if there is no sacrifice, there is no love.
The fall was necessary to demonstrate what love is. God is love. How would we know that if there were no sacrifice?
But, as I indicated in my post, there are other things man learns about himself that he otherwise would not know. When would he ever learn courage, if he were not faced with fear. When would his heart ever cry out for justice, if he never experienced injustice. When would he ever know the contentment that comes when he knows humility, if he were never broken. For man to be fully man, he HAD to go through the fall. It was utterly necessary. Redeemed man is more fully man, than man was in creation, in this: He knows the mercy of God and the love of God. Do you see that?
prince charles wrote: CL sounds nice, ive tried home exchange organisations before but nothing came thru and greece is only 3 hrs and america is 8 hrs plus a big drive but the attractions for me where staying in a house in a community and experiencing a diffrent culture but where they speak english ! (sort of )
I understand. I prefer shorter distances for travel these days. We travelled with Zola Levitt on a trip which included Greece and some of the isles. I would love to go back. Only 3 hrs.? That's great!
John UK wrote: I've reached a point in my life when the created world, and created creatures, and created plants, flowers, bushes, trees, etc. fascinate me immensely. It started as soon as I started painting, as I had to observe colours, and textures, and tone. It has been a great thrill to see God's handiwork in creation.
I totally agree. I think only the one who knows the Lord, can truly appreciate all that He has created. Worship wells up within as we see beautiful sunsets, and rainbows, and as we consider the animal kingdom, and when we consider how "fearfully and wonderfully" we are made. How can our hearts not be filled with praise? The world is endlessly fascinating to me as I see it as the work of the Creator.
I don't know what your sickness has been, John, but I do hope that you have fully recovered. If the diet has helped you, then that is something to be thankful for.
I understand. Greece? - Florida? - Tennessee? - Actually, East Tn is beautiful. And, we have a community pool just a few feet away. And, a golf course.
prince charles wrote: yeah i googled the park, can you drive there for the day ? I know you americans have some diffrent ideas about driving but for us 'the day ' would be an hour tops I used to go to Norfolk virginia when i was at sea it doesnt look so far away, can i ask do you have a reformed church in your neighberhood? what is the nearest airport
We are 45 minutes drive to the mountains, 10 minutes to McGhee Tyson airport in Knoxville, TN.
I don't know of a Reformed church in the area. In the past we were members of a PCA church, and attended a Baptist church.
I was only half-serious about swapping houses. I mentioned it to my husband, but I know that he would never take more than a few days away from work. However, you and family could come visit us. Our friends always say that we should have a B & B.
Who knows, my husband may agree to a trip to Wales for a week. We have frequent flier points. Hey, maybe we could meet John and see his art.
John UK wrote: I have learnt that 'pain' is not a good reason to reach for 'pain relievers', because it was the Lord who installed the system from which comes pain when something is amiss. The idea is to find out 'why the pain?' rather than 'let me stop this pain'. A pain in the body is our system saying, "There is something wrong!" And so dealing with the cause is good. Dealing with the effect, which is what all medical practitioners tend to do, does not get to the heart of the problem. Rather like false gospel.
I so agree with what you say. On this site, and in the past, I have recommended books by Dr. Paul Brand co-written with Philip Yancey. If you have opportunity to read Dr. Brand's books, you would have an even greater appreciation of the design of the body. Now deceased, Dr. Brand was a world renown surgeon working with leprosy patients, and Christian. He marvellously tied together God's design of man and suffering. He wrote: "Pain: The Gift Nobody Wants," "Fearfully and Wonderfully Made" and "In His Image."
We can't compete with Greece, but we live near the Great Smoky Mtns National Park - great for hiking, camping, etc. Lakes, yes. Sea and beach, no. East Tennessee.
John UK wrote: so because they never recorded any other direction from God, I believe Genesis 1:29 was a prescription. Great sermon on this by Lester Roloff on SA called [URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=260967482]]]The Bible Way to Health[/URL]
Thank you, John, for your follow-up post, and for the recommended sermon by Lester Roloff. I'll have to listen later. I do believe that it is important to be disciplined in all areas of life, including what and how much we eat. Apart from that, I know that our bodies are amazing in their design, and equipped to handle even toxins at a certain level. A built in attack system for infection says God planned for sickness before the fall.
I think that eating fish and meat were always intended by God. I tend to agree with DJC's reasoning. Birds and animals of prey would be part of God's plan for population control. Think about the scavengers. Their purpose is to clean up what might otherwise cause disease.
I love knowing that God's plan all along was for the fall. How would we know His mercy and love apart from a cursed world. And, we always think of God's Glory, but think about man and what he learns that he would not know otherwise - courage, justice, humility.
prince charles wrote: CL 'So, would this not suggest that cooking (baking) was performed by Eve as part of her wifely duties?' I am with you there CL some take this as a reference to the physical toil of field labour plowing and such but its obvious that its about eve baking, the bible addresses every area of life does it not ! i have extended this biblical teaching to hoovering and shopping. recently, as part of my duties i visited some of my subjects at a hoover factory, i was amazed to learn that many of them posessed this technological marvel in their own homes whereas i had never seen one before!!
Well, there you go - put a motor on something, make it loud, and endless amazement from the male gender.
Say, is your 400 yr. old home located at Llwynywermod? Will you leave some staff? We may be interested in a house swap for the summer.
DJC49 wrote: falcons & hawks et al SHOULDN'T be eating flesh; but they do! That's undeniable. Now, ... are all these carnivores and birds of prey in direct disobedience to what SOME think was a prescription from God (Gen 1:30) to eat ONLY greens? I don't think so.
Well, they keep populations of rodents under control. And, what magnificience of flight and precision as they zero in on their prey. God has made everything beautiful in its own way! __________
Oh, btw, DJC, I have no doubt that Noah and his family could have found a way to preserve foods without mason jars. Maybe "canning" isn't the word. Maybe "preserves" is a better word. Both salt and vinegar could be used to "preserve."
prince charles wrote: Yes i quite agree about the cooking i have never cooked a thing in my life and in our house i have never seen a man cook so the women absolutely must have done all the cooking - really ! I think the Bible is quite clear about this!
CL: I think you are right!
Prince Charles wrote: i used to box just for entertainment not competetively but i used to spar with the competetive boxers and do all the training which is very hard and i had been a vege for years and i managed fine i eat meat now but dont notice any differenceCL: Moderation in everything!
Prince Charles wrote: well we are all getting new bodies in the millenium .CL: I'm looking forward to mine! Everyone, doctors included, say I look so healthy. I say, "put that on my tombstone."
John UK wrote: Oh here's a good thing to think about. There was a time (really) when no fire had ever been lit on planet earth. There was no need in the garden for a fire, because there was no cooking, and the LORD God walked with Adam and Eve and conversed with them daily.
Good evening, John,
What do you think God discussed with Adam in the Garden? I think Adam would have been the most informed, intelligent man who ever lived. Don't you think? I mean, God must have explained everything to Adam. And, Adam would have understood perfectly.
I have to agree with Robert. . we've devolved (well, he didn't say that - I think he said we were more technologically advanced, but dumber in true wisdom and understanding).
Now, I was just reading Genesis 3:19 which says, "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread......" Now, doesn't bread require heat? So, would this not suggest that cooking (baking) was performed by Eve as part of her wifely duties? I think so. . .
Fire would have been a natural part of God's creation. Don't you think? I mean the laws of physics are operational - friction producing heat. I can't believe that man did not rub two pieces of wood together until hundreds of years later.
Mike wrote: I've heard about that lion and lamb lay down together thing, Candle Lit, but I don't think it's in the Bible.
Yeah, Mike, I was just looking for that. I'll have to look further.
I did find Isaiah 65:25 that says, "The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD."
I'll keep looking. I'm outta town tomorrow. So, I'll check the posts on Thursday. Night everyone. I like this discussion.
I just saw your post. Isaiah 11:6-7 may be the one I'm thinking of. It does come close. Thanks.
DJC49 wrote: I'm wondering if God didn't perhaps put many of those animals into a state of hibernation. Less wastes to clean up after too!
That would have certainly been good news for Noah and his family! The lion and the lamb were at peace with one another on the ark. Hey, I just realized that Isaiah talks about a future time when the "lion and lamb will lay down together." God gives such beautiful pictures as symbolism of His work of Redemption, doesn't He?
John UK wrote: Ever wondered what food Mrs Noah prepared for the family when they were 'shut in' the ark. (no chimney, don't forget.)
You know, I haven't given much thought to this in the past, but I'm thinking on it now. Milk and eggs would be readily available. I imagine they stored grains. Some perishables would have lasted for a while. Do you think they "canned" vegetables - you know, like our grandmothers did? They could have taken them into the ark. But, no chimney, wouldn't allow for cooking, unless the size of the ark would have allowed for a small fire? I don't know. Would the CO2 be toxic? After the rain, they could have vented with the window that Noah opened when he released the dove. I need to re-read the account. I'm kinda fuzzy on the details. But, interesting to think about.
Robert wrote: From what I understand, the Hindoos generally oppose Christianity not so much on religious grounds, but on economic grounds, since once the Dalits become Christian, they discover that they are made in God's image and refused to be economically exploited by the wealthy Hindoos. This causes reprisals by the Hindoos in an effort to get the Dalits back in line, working under what amounts to slavery conditions.
What you said in your post is what we learned through a ministry called "Gospel for Asia" which ministers to the Dalits. Good ministry.
Bill Grimes wrote: Now, friends! While the article doesn't give too many specifics, what is reported is Biblical. Jesus sent the disciples into the streets to preach the gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 10-11).
I read an article in the past about a church in N.C. sending its members into the bars to witness.
This all sounds so "hip" doesn't it? So, "cool"?
As you know, there are reasons people don't need to go into bars and brothels. . .should I say "TEMPTATION"?
Having said that, I must say that not all bars are equal. Some are pretty much just for drinking. Others, are in the center of the restaurant, and food is served as well as drinks. At some resttaurants, you have to pick up take-out at the bar, which is isolated from where food is served. But, going into a bar, per se, is different, than a bar within a restaurant.
Instead of going into these places, where only the strongest in the faith would survive, why not have an outdoor event, instead? Like an outdoor music festival that draws people in, people would be drawn because of the crowd, and then the message of the gospel could be presented. I think this would be more appropriate.