Watcher wrote:
Honestly, I for one am sick to death of this sort of thing. I am of Paul, you are of Apollos, he is of Sproul, she is of MacArthur...enough's enough! I am a Christian. I am a slave of Jesus Christ. Saved by Him, for Him and from Him. Period. If a man goes against scripture, especially in regards to this major point of doctrine, he is apostate and should have been rebuked years ago, not embraced as a brother.

Observer wrote:
Just curious Christopher, since he is the one who grants repentance and faith, how does that help you escape your dilemma?

Matthew 16

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
—
Christopher I think my last post may of been kind of confusing as I believe the mystery part that I mentioned is about prayer but not Election. I would suggest the sermon MS suggested it is short and answers your dilemma.

This verse on prayer is good:

1 John 5:14

14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing ACCORDING TO HIS WILL, he heareth us:

Christopher000 wrote:
Hi Kev, what I view differently is that I see personal pronouns here, and God speaking to the individual, while letting us know that we, in and of ourselves, can do nothing.. I don't view those prayers as a work or effort on our part, but a part of our spiritual duty to pray for the lost. God expects us to pray for those lost, and the fervent prayers of the righteous availeth much...

I think it is God who causes us to pray.

Philippians 2:13

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

I like the verse you mentioned it is a mystery how God works in His providence I don’t think it is something we can ever comprehend. We are to obey what He has put forward for us to do.

Deuteronomy 29:29

29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

I think this verse fits about these things.

Ephesians 1 is a good read notice in the reading all the instances of “His will”

Observer wrote:
In other words, if what I describe is the Christ of the Bible, then you would want nothing to do with him despite the pious words "Fall on one's face before Jesus Christ who died on the Cross and rose again to save sinners and Worship Him".
Sure I smell TULIPs in the verses you quote.
1 Cor 15:3,4 - who is the us that Christ died for? It is those who have come to believe!
Heb 5:8,9 the source of salvation to all who obey him - precisely. Who will obey? The natural man who is averse to the things of God? How does the natural man, who is dead in sins and trespasses come to life without God working in his life? This is the grace that TULIP teaches about.
Luke 6:46 - More applicable to you than you think.
1 Timothy 1:5,6 - Discussing the central truths about God's glorious grace in Jesus Christ and how He determined to save innumerable souls from every tribe, tongue and nation is hardly turning aside to fruitless discussion. Your quoting this verse exposes your impiety and shallowness.

2 Timothy 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, BUT ACCORDING to his own PURPOSE and GRACE, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Would it be called an “election of grace” if it was based on something we would do:

Romans 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the ELECTION OF GRACE.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Roman 9

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Connor7 wrote:
Ivan, here's an answer to your question:
1. God commands us to pray.
I agree with Kev, and if I might turn the tables, what good is it to pray for someone if God already knows what's going to happen?

When we ask for something that is against His will it is in effect saying we know what’s better for us then God.

MS wrote:
Hi Kev, in God's Providence I was listening to a sermon on 1 Peter 1:2 when your post popped up..
Here it is:
The Way God Chose to Elect.
Gabe Stainaker.
Might be helpful to certain folks who absolutely disdain God's Sovereignty over His creation and creatures.

Another Michael wrote:
No Kev, it is wicked to put a stumbling block in a brothers way.
Since you claim to be Scriptural and hold to the DOG, would you mind reading this verse that is important to this non-Calvinist:
"By Silvanus, a faithful brother as I regard him, I have written briefly to you, exhorting and declaring that this is the true grace of God. Stand firm in it."
1 Peter 5:12
"... true grace of God. Stand firm in it."
I sure hope you don't have a problem with this.
I think for the while I'll pay more attention to what Peter, who personally walked with Jesus, and by the Spirit wrote than those claimed to be the real experts in Scripture who came after 1517 like 1618 to 1619.

I am standing firm on what the whole council of the Lord teaches about God’s Grace sorry you stumbled over some of the verses you didn’t like!

Peter:
1 Peter 1

John Yurich USA wrote:
Pastor of my Baptist Church teaches the Baptist doctrine of salvation(which is the biblical Gospel of salvation) that salvation is received by accepting Jesus as ones Lord and Savior and trusting in Him alone for salvation.

Isaiah 8:20

20 To the law and to the testimony: if they SPEAK NOT ACCORDING TO THIS WORD, it is because there is NO LIGHT IN THEM.

So either there is no light in Pastor Steve or you are lying about what he said.

John Yurich USA wrote:
One church that is not a failure is my Baptist Church that I attend faithfully every Sunday because Pastor preaches the biblical Gospel of salvation every Sunday during his sermons.

2 Corinthians 4:2-6

2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

Ivan Karamazov wrote:
What good is it to pray for him when it was preordained before the foundation of the world?

21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

He ran the good race and was used of God. I’m sure he is seeing now to die is gain.

Lurker wrote:
I see it was deleted by SA. Good thing as I quoted only half and the rest was worse.
Blessings, Jon.

You should just drop the whole thing with Ladybug and not start to stir things up the minute she leaves. She said she was going to drop it but you haven’t. You said Ladybug likes to cause arguments but I see many times where you start them as well.

Since Ladybug said she was going to drop it why do you backbite her when she has stoped and compare her to the Pharisees and what not. You and Another Michael aren’t so innocent as you guys like to makes yourselves out to be.
—
Dr. Tim I liked your comment
—
Ezekiel 36
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.