Alan H wrote:Maybe, this is a little bit unrelated, but, Judas Iscariot's hypocrisy was pretending to be a believer, while Peter's hypocrisy was pretending not to be a believer.
John UK wrote:But then, if Judas fell from apostleship, why did not Peter?
"Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot [the son] of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve." Jo. 6:70-71
"I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me." Jo. 13:18
"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." Jo. 17:12
"That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none." Jo. 18:9
Prior to the denial:
"Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad. But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee." Matt. 26:31-32
No mention of forfeiture of any kind!
Mike wrote:What's your take ...Guess we can't get there from here.
Guinness wrote:Junia - a man or a woman? an apostle or someone of a good reputation among the apostles?
Good questions. IMO, which may be of little value here, the context of Romans 16:7 would seem to indicate apostles. But I won't stake anything important on it.
What's your take, does kinsmen as written in the verse apply to women? Would a woman be a fellow prisoner of Paul? If so what would she have been imprisoned for in order to become a fellow prisoner? Not preaching, I suspect.
On the other hand, Junia is a female name, the feminine form of Junius. On the other other hand, Junius is the name used in some other versions.
Guess we can't get there from here.
Mike wrote:2- Andronicus and Junia (Rom.16:7)
John UK wrote:Mike, I tried counting them up once and I found seventeen, but if you have done a similar exercise and found more, I should be very happy to hear about it.
12- The original 12, minus 1, plus 1
2- Andronicus and Junia (Rom.16:7)
1- James the Lord's brother (Gal 1:19)
1- Apollos (1 Cor 3:22)
2- Barnabus and Paul (Acts 14:14)
2- Sylvanus and Timothy (1Thess1:1; 2:6)
1- Jesus himself (Hebrews 3:1)
I suppose if we were to get technical about the definition of apostle, we might include the seventy sent by Jesus- (Luke 10:1)
John UK wrote:Thank you Lurker, I stand corrected.But then, if Judas fell from apostleship, why did not Peter?
Gotta go, John. God bless.
Lurker wrote:Hi John, DJC 49,Act 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, FROM WHICH JUDAS BY TRANSGRESSION FELL, that he might go to his own place. Act 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and HE WAS NUMBERED WITH THE ELEVEN APOSTLES.
But then, if Judas fell from apostleship, why did not Peter?
John UK wrote:Hi DJWell I looked it up bro, and here's the answer:Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. Matthew 10:2-4 KJVJudas Iscariot!!
Act 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, FROM WHICH JUDAS BY TRANSGRESSION FELL, that he might go to his own place.
Act 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and HE WAS NUMBERED WITH THE ELEVEN APOSTLES.
djc49 wrote:The Survey Question is:"Who is the 12th apostle?"That's easy.He's whomever Christ picked last!Go look it up.
Well I looked it up bro, and here's the answer:
Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. Matthew 10:2-4 KJV
Judas Iscariot!!
Go look it up.
Michael Hranek wrote: Why this question?Certainly Paul was an apostle.It could be of benefit what the one who composed this question was getting at.
It could be of benefit to KNOW what the one who composed the question was getting at. Anyone want to give some input in how answering this kind question helps us or maybe would distract us?
Mike wrote:Are you sure there are but 17?
John UK wrote:A trickier question is.....Who was the seventeenth and last apostle?
Who was the seventeenth and last apostle?
Discerning Believer wrote:Matthias was chosen by men (Acts 1:23), Paul was personally chosen by Christ himself (Acts 9:15, Gal. 1:1).Where was Peter given the authority or mandate to call the assembly together to call another apostle? Acts 1:15
