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Breaking News All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  10/22/2020
THURSDAY, AUG 27, 2020  |  42 comments
Jessa Duggar Seewald says she was in a 'spiritual depression'
She also has taken comfort in Martyn Lloyd-Jones' book "Spiritual Depression: Its Causes and Cure."

"I didn't have gospel rest. I wasn't resting in my justification. I wasn't resting in what Christ did for me," Seewald recalled. "For a Christian to rest in their justification, the fact that they are saved, Christ lived the perfect life that I could never live."

The former "19 Kids and Counting" star said that she's feeling better these days, but that there's "still got a long way to go."

"Nothing can separate us from the love of Christ, so that is our justification and we can rest in that," she said, explaining she was able to "release" her soul of "so many burdens I had placed myself under, and helped me to look to Christ." ...


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News Item9/1/2020 5:32 PM
MS  Find all comments by MS
John UK, I see your Diotrephes spirit has been awakened again. I do not not answer to you or any man but my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and my husband, so keep that ‘ordering’ around speech and evangelical feminist nonsense tripe to yourself.True to form for you,if you can’t win the argument, you abuse the opposition.
42

News Item9/1/2020 5:15 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
MS, you are out of order, but I forgive you and hope better days for you.

1. Someone who preaches heresy is called a heretic. It's not that difficult, so you shouldn't have a problem with that.

2a. I wonder why you didn't mention Jmac's email address and refer a certain evangelical feminist to write him about his supposed heresy?

2b. I am not here to obey evangelical feminists, but the Lord Jesus Christ, who is my Lord, and whom I serve. How on earth you can justify telling me what to do, I am at a loss.

3. None of my posts are rabbit trails. You just trot out that statement because you cannot gainsay my arguments. You know this full well, but being a woman you hate the very idea of being wrong, so you try to make up for it in other ways.

4. The grace of God is evidenced and seen by those with eyes to see. I have already shown this from scripture. A good tree brings forth good fruit. By their fruits you will know them, whether they be good or bad.

5. If you want the truth about what JMac says about assurance of salvation, please check out the following article where he addresses the subject.

https://www.gty.org/library/questions/QA165/how-can-i-be-sure-of-my-salvation

MS, please read this short article, and then repent. Thank you.

41

News Item9/1/2020 4:32 PM
MS  Find all comments by MS
A few things need addressed after reading comments from John UK.

JMac was not referred to as a heretic. His teaching on LSS was called heresy.
(easily verified, by scrolling through the comments.)
Gary Shepard’s e-mail was provided for you
to address him personally concerning his teaching, instead you decide to post here on how in error he is, and provide your opinion and other men’s opinion on the matter, and then go off into rabbit trails...again.
...
If this statement from JMac doesn’t send chills down a true child of God’s spine, I fear for you, and him.
“The only validation you will ever have of your salvation is a life of obedience”.😳
Sounds like romanist speak, not the good news of the Gospel.

40

News Item9/1/2020 2:21 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
...
I don’t have to make Christ my Lord. If I belong to Him, He is my Lord and I am His servant.
It is a very astute observation, bro.

A Christian is bought with a price, ransomed from the slave-market of sin, and he is indeed a servant of the purchaser.

I find it remarkable that some extremists can imagine to separate 'Lord' and 'Saviour'. He is our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The chances are that some are duped by the strawman arguments which abound in this controversy. I've no doubt if pastor Jmac was confronted with pastor Shep's accusation, he would supply a refutation and give an explanation which would satisfy him, or at least ought to satisfy him.

The other thing is that Jmac did not invent the doctrine of Lordship Salvation; it has been around since the Bible was first written (as is easily proved) and diverse preachers over the history of the Christian church have balked at it. But they have always been in the minority.

In Gil Rugh's article, he begins by looking at some of the strawman arguments put forth by non-lordship proponents, and this is extremely helpful, for how can you trust someone who argues against a non-existing belief?

39

News Item9/1/2020 12:39 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Brother JohnUK,

I only read your comments and then surmised from them what the argument was. I have also never heard of Gary Smith. I was not trying to come to your aid as implied, but was showing that I agreed with you; big difference. IOW, I wouldn’t lie for you or anyone else. When I became saved, I had or course never heard of the Lordship Salvation controversy. I simply knew I was a sinner and that Christ died for those sins. At the same time, I also realized that Christ was my Lord and Savior and I was to try to obey Him at all costs. I have challenged people to say they are saved and Christ isn’t their Lord and of course no one would dare say that.

I don’t have to make Christ my Lord. If I belong to Him, He is my Lord and I am His servant.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I did read two of MacArthur’s books on Lordship salvation. But, I was already convinced of that before reading them. MacArthur simply added to my understanding which what any pastor should be able to do. Prior to any real knowledge of the controversy, I had always believed salvation and discipleship were synonymous terms.

Your comments were outstanding!

38

News Item9/1/2020 12:03 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Brother Frank, thank you for your comments. I know that you have given this subject much thought over many years, and are very solid on it.

There are some who listen to one sermon and take the message on board without much thought, such as the Gary Shepard sermon recommended earlier. I thought it wise to expose it as incorrect. And I think it unwise for them to refer to pastor Mac as an heretic.

[Believe it or not, it is the Lordship position which actually embraces a full-orbed free grace ... this is because, God initiates and gives us new life SO THAT WE MIGHT believe. AND that same new disposition, brings us to repentance. Repentance is necessary for our salvation ... the gospel itself clearly and unambiguously says so ... this is no gospel addition .. but again, it certainly does not come from our own natural intrinsic ability. God's grace is what enables us to do so. If we look at 2 Tim 2:25 it speaks of how believers are to respond to persons who oppose the gospel and what God may do for them it says, "Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will GRANT THEM REPENTANCE leading them to a knowledge of the truth"]

from https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/lordship.html

37

News Item9/1/2020 11:22 AM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
MS wrote:
Well, sister lb the second half of the duo has arrived to bolster up his counterparts lectures, so before this thread is shutdown or continues on with the false rants, I’ll be taking my leave.
Thanks for posting up the links on JMac. they speak volumes.
Now you aren't going to believe this, but it is true. In my original comment, I referred to you and LB as the "dynamic duo". I then thought, why are you attacking the person and not the argument. Anyway since I really didn't want anyone to be personally offended, I modified it.

Hate is a horrible thing and it can destroy us.

Last one to you.

36

News Item9/1/2020 11:08 AM
MS  Find all comments by MS
Well, sister lb the second half of the duo has arrived to bolster up his counterparts lectures, so before this thread is shutdown or continues on with the false rants, I’ll be taking my leave.
Thanks for posting up the links on JMac. they speak volumes.
35

News Item9/1/2020 10:55 AM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Brother JohnUK,

I haven’t really been following this thread, but I did read through some of your comments and thought they were outstanding.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

What some would have us believe is that Christ underwent a horrible death to atone for our sins, but then say God says it is okay to sin. They spin this, but that is the crux of their thoughts. My guess is none of these folks confess their sins on a daily basis. Anyway, here is a question I would ask them and they will not respond. Is Christ your Lord as well as your Savior? They would have to set up some rabbit trail by accusing me of adding to salvation solely through grace. There is no one that is fellowshipping with Christ that will say He is not their Lord.

Lastly, like one of your excellent comments alluded to; when did He then become our Lord? He became my Lord on day one even though a full understanding came later. The Spirit showed me He was my Lord and Savior from day 1.

Why would anyone say Jesus wasn’t their Lord if they worship Him? He is God!

34

News Item9/1/2020 10:45 AM
Ladybig  Find all comments by Ladybig
From Jmac, "the only validation you will ever have of your salvation is a life of obedience". From https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/2256/empty-hearts

Looking to self for evidence/assurance of salvation is not what the sheep do. We look to Him, we know the flesh profits nothing. Salvation is not contingent on what you do, it's what He has done. "It is finished"

Jmac has the foundations wrong concerning the Gospel-MacArthur says, “I believe in volition (free will). I believe, anybody who wants to anytime, can come to Jesus Christ and receive Him as Saviour” (Tapes- GC 2001; GC 45-73).

Everything he teaches after that will be off kilter. The free will crowd loves johnny, as does the double minded Guyon/Graham fan club, the legalist, the law keeper, the self righteous sinner who has not been given repentance of dead works that leads to a knowledge of the truth.

Sister MS, amen. We rest in Him❤️❤️

And I am sure of this, that 👉 he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ👈❤️

33

News Item9/1/2020 10:45 AM
MS  Find all comments by MS
Just reread this article again. It is a wonderful blessing to have Gospel rest in the Lord Jesus Christ. Hopefully, she will continue to always rest and look to the finished work of Christ for His people and never give heed to the voices of the legalistic religion she grew up in.
32

News Item9/1/2020 9:54 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
[Repentance is another highly debated topic in the lordship controversy. At issue is the question, Is repentance part of true saving faith? Or put another way, Must a person repent of his sins to be saved?
Different answers to this question have been given by those involved in the lordship debate. Hodges, for example, does not believe repentance is an essential part of saving faith. In fact, he believes that preaching repentance to an unbeliever is adding works to the Gospel.
Ryrie differs somewhat from Hodges in that he believes repentance is a necessary part of saving faith. Ryrie defines repentance as a change of mind about Christ. To Ryrie, though, this change of mind is only in reference to Christ and does not necessarily include a change of mind about sin.
Lordship proponents are agreed that repentance is a change of mind about Christ, but they also believe that a change of mind about Christ necessarily involves a change of mind about sin. In other words, a change of mind about Christ must also mean a change of mind about sin. The two go together.] Gil Rugh

Which of these views lines up with the Bible?

31

News Item9/1/2020 9:31 AM
MS  Find all comments by MS
Perhaps those who think Pastor Shepard “needs to investigate his subject more thoroughly” and give their opinion that he is biblically in error on the matter, should e-mail him and voice their concern.
[email protected]
30

News Item9/1/2020 8:43 AM
Ladybug  Find all comments by Ladybug
The Lord bless you and keep you as well dear sister❤️❤️.
29

News Item9/1/2020 8:21 AM
MS  Find all comments by MS
Thank you sister ladybug. You stated it well.
Have a blessed day in the Lord.
28

News Item9/1/2020 7:51 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
2 Peter 1:4-9 KJV
(4)  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
(5)  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
(6)  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
(7)  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
(8)  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(9)  But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

God's grace is visible.

Acts 11:23 KJV
(23)  Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.

A pastor who baptises converts must needs be able to perceive the grace of God in a professing Christian's life before he will baptise him. Normally all that is needed is to chat with him/her, because Zion's language is detectable, as is also the pseudo convert. cf. 2 Cor 5:17

27

News Item9/1/2020 7:32 AM
Ladybug  Find all comments by Ladybug
Opinions are not what the elect argue from. Evidence of salvation is never based on you, what you do,etc. The self righteous will NOT like Gary's sermon. The sheep will love it❤️❤️ the free will crowd will gnash their teeth, the legalist will lash out at Gary as well. The double minded will attack Gary. The proud flesh demands they get due credit....the flesh profits nothing. Meanwhile, the sheep continually look to Christ and feed on His Gospel. He alone is our assurance. Perhaps the double tongued can find their assurance in Madame Guyon, or Billy Graham.....
26

News Item9/1/2020 7:01 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
I did intend to listen to Gary Shepard's full message, but as often happens, he introduced his subject with a strawman which he was then obviously going to knock down in the rest of the message. Preachers do this when they have an insufficient argument for the cause they are promoting.

For those who are interested in the whole business of lordship salvation, it is necessary to get a consensus, arrived at by listening to many different preachers, because not all will hold exactly the same thing. This happens in other areas of Christianity, why not in this? For example:

[The essay you sent also charges the Lordship people as believing that ..."the promises of God's Word, while necessary for assurance, are not sufficient. One must also look to his works. No believer can have 100% assurance of salvation merely by looking to the promises in God's Word to the believer." Really? On the contrary, the Reformed position is the only position that trusts in the promises of God as sufficient.]

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/lordship.html

I think pastor Shepard needs to investigate his subject more thoroughly. Biblically, he is in error on this. And that is mine own personal opinion.

Thank you Michael.

25

News Item9/1/2020 6:27 AM
Michael Hranek | weeping for Sardis  Contact via emailFind all comments by Michael Hranek
MS wrote:
MH, Pastor Gary Shepard gives an excellent message on the that topic which ladybug recommended in her post to me.
I would encourage you and any who are interested to give a listen.
MS
For those who do not have a great deal of time to spend listening there is a beautiful brief clip on YouTube (well worth its 7:53 length)

Come... and He will set you Free! (Paris Reidhead)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxBtF-U0DJ4

Please do watch and/or watch again if you have already imho it is well worth it

John UK
On this well said indeed

a song for you and really for all of us

Is He Worthy-Andrew Peterson-Lyrics-Revelations 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtC-Fnsy4es

24

News Item9/1/2020 3:09 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
"It is important that we understand how works relate to salvation. There is a difference between works contributing to salvation and works being the result of salvation. When lordship advocates state that works follow conversion that is different from saying works cause salvation. Let us use an example from the natural realm. A baby born into the human race will do certain things because he is human. But we would not turn that around and say that the actions of a baby cause him to be a human. In a similar way, lordship proponents are simply saying that when a person has been saved and given a new nature, he will act like a child of God by doing works consistent with God’s character. This is not a difficult point to understand. That is why I am surprised by all the material written by men with advanced theological degrees who refuse to acknowledge this and still say lordship advocates are teaching works as necessary for salvation."

from Lordship Salvation - What Must a True Believer Believe? by Gil Rugh

23
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