City demands churches turn over names, addresses, phone numbers!
Now one official is moving into extreme territory, demanding churches provide him with the names, addresses and telephone numbers of anyone who shows up to worship.
The move by Quinton Lucas, the mayor of Kansas City, Missouri, already is attracting the attention of Liberty Counsel, which has been defending churches amid the coronavirus lockdowns.
"I am running out of adjectives to describe how completely insane the tyrannical abuses launched by state governors and local officials against pastors and churches are becoming," he said in his newsletter. "It is as if these leaders never bothered to so much as glance at the Constitution they swore to uphold and defend. They seem to be governing from some make-believe, dystopian viewpoint."...
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What is going on now is an evil part of the government's evil Agenda 21 plan including the Agenda 2030 - 2050 which Agenda 21 is the original of this evil plot. The devil, Satan is rearing his evil head.
Stevenr wrote: So, my understanding is that 501c3 is more than just allowing givers to write off their donations‚ÄĒI believe it also exempts Churches from property tax. Can you imagine what the property tax bill for your average CC Church would look like?
If you do the research you will find that the IRS considers all churches 50c13 whether or not they have applied for it or not. So churches and their contributions are not taxed regardless of whether or not they are 501c3. This action by the city has nothing to do with 501c3.
I have just heard the excellent news of a group of Romanian pastors from ethnic Romanian Churches in the state of Illinois. These men and their congregations (at least the older people in them) came out of Communist Romania in the 1980‚Äôs, where Christians were harassed, persecuted, imprisoned and tortured by the Ceaucescu regime, right up until the overthrow and execution of this tyrant on Christmas Day 1989.
They have sent a very respectful and firm letter to the Governor of the state, Mr Pritzker, putting him under notice, that while they will observe spacing out, physical distancing, disinfecting and so on, they are going to use their constitutional right to have in person services, with no arbitrary limits of 10 people, and rules on how they should worship, etc. When these people came out of Communist Romania, in the 1980‚Äôs and before, and found sanctuary in the USA as fully legal immigrants, and adapted eagerly to their new country, they never thought they would have to begin fighting the same issues of freedom of worship that they had back in Romania, or that tyrannical state authorities and governors would dictate how and when they could worship!!!
So, my understanding is that 501c3 is more than just allowing givers to write off their donations‚ÄĒI believe it also exempts Churches from property tax. Can you imagine what the property tax bill for your average CC Church would look like?
I watch mainly the live-streamed services from Metropolitan Tabernacle (Spurgeon‚Äôs Church), with live prayer and preaching from one of the pastors to an empty echoey church!!, and pre-recorded congregational hymns from previous services with congregation and organ, and then sometimes I listen by invitation through a friend and a business conferencing app to a service from a small IFB church in south London. Unlike Met Tab, this service is a little more interactive as people choose hymns and raise prayer points, otherwise very solid prayer and preaching from the pastor or one of the deacons.
Having said all that, nothing replaces the proper in person church service, and I really long for the day when these can be restored. It rests in God‚Äôs hands, but we need to be aware of what He wants to do with us during this lockdown period, and be open to it.
Of course here,churches have been banned from meeting in person since March 23rd, although the leading denominations had stopped meeting a week or two before that. They still are banned at present.
However, the lockdown, though moderately strict, has not been as severe as those in places like Spain,Italy, and France, and apart from some instances here and there not as stringently policed as in those countries.
However, I wish the churches had stood up more against the compete ban on in person church services. With no communion, baptisms, or any in person services, and churches closed for private prayer, it has been very difficult.
My own church does not do livestream, though the pastor does a weekly video sermon through SA; I watch mainly the live-streamed services of Metropolitan Tabernacle (Spurgeon‚Äôs Church), with live and idea hing from one of the pastors
hey_yo wrote: Any pastor beginning to rethink the whole 501c3 issue? Wake up.
Don't hold your breath, since they obtain tax benefits like the Housing Allowance this way: www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc417 And very few people are so "holy" that they'd willingly surrender an exemption or benefit. This is the evil genius of our tax/welfare regime, and why tax simplification is political fantasy.
Tim B. wrote: George Orwell's 1984 seems to be getting more and more accurate...
There has been persecution of Christians long before Orwell's satire. He gets too much credit, for hardly anyone cites "We" by Yevgeny Zamyatin, which Orwell read before writing "1984": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_(novel) which BTW, had Biblical allusions.
Now if churches practiced the more informal, Biblical concept of visible-church membership, there would be no address lists for officials to confiscate. This is yet another example of worldly business or social-club practice which hardly anyone challenges, since pastors like it that way.