Franklin Graham surprised by backlash over UK evangelistic tour
Evangelist Franklin Graham has said in a media interview that he’s surprised to see all the confirmed venues in the United Kingdom pulling out due to his views on homosexuality, even as his supporters have started an online petition calling it “bullying” and a “hate crime.”
“I have been surprised… I'm not coming to speak against anybody and I don’t name any groups of people,” Graham, the son of the late evangelist Billy Graham, told Christian Today, based in the U.K., in an interview. “I’m coming to tell people how they can have a relationship with God through faith in Jesus Christ.”
Graham plans to tour the U.K. with eight stops starting in May, and the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, which he heads, says more than 1,800 churches across the United Kingdom are cooperating with it “to share the Gospel in multiple cities this spring.”...
James Thomas wrote: I think your timeline is a bit off. Jer 29:4 4Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, unto all that are carried away captives, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem unto Babylon; Jer 29:14 14And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive. Sound like Isaiah 11? Read on and you will see the better promises found in Jer 31:33.
Okay, thanks, I’m still looking at stuff. Sometimes life gets in the way from me studying like I would want too! But, I haven’t forgotten.
John for JESUS wrote: James Thomas... They were both future events at the time they were written, but they are two separate regatherings. Deut 30:1-6 already happened after the Babylonian exile. While Isaiah 11:11 is yet future. Although, I don’t have all of my eschatological ducks in a row and may be off some as far as that. All I can say is I will try to study up some on the second regathering and see how it all fits.
I think your timeline is a bit off.
Jer 29:4 4Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, unto all that are carried away captives, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem unto Babylon;
Jer 29:14 14And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.
Sound like Isaiah 11? Read on and you will see the better promises found in Jer 31:33.
Why the L in tulip? It stands for limited. What is limited? The saving work of Jesus Christ: the ransom, the atonement, the redemption, the adoption. Did Jesus himself teach this? Oh, sure he did! But because what he said goes counter to what many believe, they cannot accept it, they would rather have their notions.
Okay, sure it can be difficult, and theology was never easy to begin with, because we are dealing with Almighty God, but verses like this one are plain and clear: there is a limit, even though there is a multitude. And as JG says, "many is not all".
Mark 10:45 KJV (45) For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
"...which ransom price was paid "for" them in their room and stead, by Christ, as their substitute; who put himself in their legal place, and laid himself under obligation to pay their debts, and clear their scores, and redeem them from all their iniquities, and the evil consequences of them: and this he did "for many"; for as many as were ordained to eternal life; for as many as the Father gave unto him; for many out of every kindred, tongue, and people, and nation; but not for every individual of human nature; for many are not all." JG
Mike wrote: Dan, what then would you say is the purpose of hearing the gospel to one who has been born again from above, i.e, one who has the indwelling Spirit of God and has eternal life already?
1 Cor. 1:21b "it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."
So I'd say it's just how God wants to do it. When He quickens one of His elect the preaching of the Gospel that he had heard all his life and thought of as foolishness suddenly becomes everything to him! And that is an indicator to himself that he has been reborn. He knows he didn't just decide to believe. It was something that happened due to a renewed mind.
They were both future events at the time they were written, but they are two separate regatherings. Deut 30:1-6 already happened after the Babylonian exile. While Isaiah 11:11 is yet future. Although, I don’t have all of my eschatological ducks in a row and may be off some as far as that. All I can say is I will try to study up some on the second regathering and see how it all fits.
John for JESUS wrote: I still see it as a regathering...
J4j, This originally started with Deut. 30:6 and your suggestion we look at the context of Deut. 301-3.
We agreed the same event and its narrative from Deut. 30:1-3 is also given by Isaiah 11:11, but what I was holding off on was the prior verse must be included as well in our discussion as its fulfilled the same day.
Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Isaiah 11:10 is a verse that was quoted/cited by Paul in Romans 15:12 as a done deal at the time wrote to the Romans which is the better promise (Heb 11:40, Jer 31:31-34, Ezek 36:26) of God’s laws written on hearts of flesh..... the grace of God through Jesus Christ (Zech 4:7) which is one in the same as our text that began all this...that being Deut. 30:6 the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart.
All align perfectly and each are part of the picture God paints for us to understand. So when you pluck one piece out and try to make a case, know that Paul has a monopoly on Isaiah 11:10 that cannot be disputed.
I appreciate the exchange of thoughts on all this J4J.
Adriel wrote: You forgot to look at the next verse, JohnFor. 13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." They were "born of God." NOT human intervention. And remember: Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION of the WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, ACCORDING to the good pleasure of HIS WILL," God provides the "power to receive" (V12) John 6:44 NO MAN can come to me, EXCEPT the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
Salvation isn’t by human intervention. It is from God to those who believe. Ephesians 1:4 says He chose “us”. Do you know who they are? Faithful believers! He chose that those who believe will be holy and blameless before Him. Whatever you think John 6:44 means, Peter, who was a believing disciple could not come to Jesus either!
John for JESUS wrote: John 1:12-13 (12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Who did God give the power to become children of God to? To as many as first receive Him and believe on His name. So it is clear to anyone who cares to see, you must believe to be saved. People aren’t saved to believe!
You forgot to look at the next verse, JohnFor. 13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
They were "born of God." NOT human intervention.
And remember: Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION of the WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, ACCORDING to the good pleasure of HIS WILL,"
God provides the "power to receive" (V12)
John 6:44 NO MAN can come to me, EXCEPT the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
danfromtenn wrote: Amen John UK and Adriel. One does not have the capability of hearing the Gospel until he has been born again (from above). He does not have Life (with a capital L) until then.
Dan, what then would you say is the purpose of hearing the gospel to one who has been born again from above, i.e, one who has the indwelling Spirit of God and has eternal life already?
James Thomas wrote: Right, So do you see that "The second time" reference in Isaiah 11:11 refers to simply the Lord setting His hand yet a second time in the land of Egypt to bring them out again?
I still see it as a regathering after the first dispersion and a regathering the second time.
John for JESUS wrote: You are saying the first time God brought Israel out was in Egypt and the second time was in Egypt and Assyria.
Right, So do you see that "The second time" reference in Isaiah 11:11 refers to simply the Lord setting His hand yet a second time in the land of Egypt to bring them out again?
John 1:12-13 (12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Who did God give the power to become children of God to? To as many as first receive Him and believe on His name. So it is clear to anyone who cares to see, you must believe to be saved. People aren’t saved to believe!
danfromtenn wrote: Amen John UK and Adriel. One does not have the capability of hearing the Gospel until he has been born again (from above). He does not have Life (with a capital L) until then.
Amen bro, it seems to be to be most conclusive from the following verses of scripture:-
John 1:12-13 KJV (12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Sinners will come to Christ, will believe on Christ, will receive Christ, just as soon as they are born of God by the will of God.
John 5:21 KJV (21) For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
danfromtenn wrote: Amen John UK and Adriel. One does not have the capability of hearing the Gospel until he has been born again (from above). He does not have Life (with a capital L) until then.
None of that is scriptural, of course. Once you are preached the gospel, you have the capacity! How will they believe if they haven’t heard?
“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Romans 10:14-17
Hearing doesn’t come by magic spell, but by the word of God.
John UK wrote: Adriel, it is unfortunate that there are some people who do not yet understand what the word death means. They think it means "poorly", or "half-dead", or "disabled", or some such thing. The reason for this is because they do not take into account the promise of God to Adam concerning the effect of sin in his life. He sinned, but did not the same day keel over and bite the dust - dead. In fact he lived for a very long time afterwards, and then died - physically. Thusly the death he experienced immediately upon his sin was a spiritual death, making him incapable of anything spiritual. This is why you quoted Ephesians 2:1 which proves the point. Quickening is the very first requisite for a sinner, if he is to become a Christian, believing in Christ with all his renewed heart.
Amen John UK and Adriel. One does not have the capability of hearing the Gospel until he has been born again (from above). He does not have Life (with a capital L) until then.
James Thomas wrote: I'm not sure your following my point. So let me rephrase for clarity. My point is that "the second time" is referring to the Lord setting His hand... 1ST Time was in Egypt. Ex 13:3 And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: Second time was in Egypt/Assyria etc. to deliver the remnant. Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time.... Does that make sense?
You are saying the first time God brought Israel out was in Egypt and the second time was in Egypt and Assyria.
John for JESUS wrote: Because they were scattered abroad, not just in Egypt. So regathering some out of Egypt would be different than all of them exodusing out of Egypt together.
I'm not sure your following my point. So let me rephrase for clarity.
My point is that "the second time" is referring to the Lord setting His hand...
1ST Time was in Egypt.
Ex 13:3 And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place:
Second time was in Egypt/Assyria etc. to deliver the remnant.
Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time....
James Thomas wrote: I've been pondering this and I believe I see our disconnect in all this J4J. Lets take a look again at these two verses which I've abbreviated to demonstrate a point. Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time... Zech 10:10 I will bring them **again**also out of the land of Egypt**, and gather them out of Assyria... Is it possible that the "second time" reference and the "again" refers to simply the Lord setting His hand yet a second time in the land of Egypt to bring them out yet again? I believe it is. If you don't see it to be plausible, what would be your reasoning?
Because they were scattered abroad, not just in Egypt. So regathering some out of Egypt would be different than all of them exodusing out of Egypt together.
John for JESUS wrote: JT... I’m concerned with the remnant. It would appear Israel is referred to that only after they were driven out of the Promised Land.
I've been pondering this and I believe I see our disconnect in all this J4J. Lets take a look again at these two verses which I've abbreviated to demonstrate a point.
Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time...
Zech 10:10 I will bring them **again**also out of the land of Egypt**, and gather them out of Assyria...
Is it possible that the "second time" reference and the "again" refers to simply the Lord setting His hand yet a second time in the land of Egypt to bring them out yet again?
I believe it is.
If you don't see it to be plausible, what would be your reasoning?
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Clarence Sexton | 8/31/2009
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