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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  5/29/2020
TUESDAY, JAN 14, 2020  |  49 comments
Gov’t officials warn against Christian health cost-sharing ministries
Officials in Washington have ordered Trinity Healthshare, one of the nation’s leading Christian health cost-sharing ministries, to permanently stop insuring people in that state and pay a $150,000 fine for failing to meet the legal definition of a healthcare sharing ministry under state law.

“Many consumers here and in other parts of the country thought they were buying a health insurance plan, only to find out that pre-existing and chronic conditions weren’t covered," Washington Insurance Commissioner Mike Kreidler said in a recent statement. "That resulted in many people facing thousands of dollars of debt for medical expenses they believed would be covered.”

The Christian Post reached out to Trinity Healthshare for comment multiple times for this report but was repeatedly directed to an automated messaging service by representatives. ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.christianpost.com

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 49 user comment(s)
News Item1/23/2020 6:00 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
B. McCausland wrote:
Sorry John, but the NT as much as the OT is full of enterprise, personal initiative towards profit making in view to be able to help others with it when needed. This is capitalism.
Thank you for your response, sister.

I really am unable to give accurate definition of capitalism or communism, never having looked into this aspect of life.

But your statement above has similarities with communism, the only difference as I see it, is that an individual is in control of his own wealth and does with it as he wishes, in a philanthropic way; rather than have the guv use it as they see fit.

If I knew people who worked in order to maintain their lives and the lives of others, I would consider myself to be really blessed. But alas, the love of money is a very strong man to beat, and I am having to fight this man in mine own breast, even though I be very poor myself.

Philanthropy, or charitableness, is a great step forward in the Christian life, and a source of much blessing.

1 Corinthians 13:13 KJV
(13)  And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

49

News Item1/22/2020 7:22 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
John UK wrote:
1. ... God had a great concern for the poor in our midst.
... laws were given which assisted the poor and ensured they did not starve to death.

2. ... the new apostolic church operated what we would call today an anti-capitalist system.

3. ... "Christian Communism" is probably more valid than "Christian Capitalism"

1. Yes, oppression never has been in God's agenda, hence his multiple mercies in place to assist others in times of strait as a coping mechanism, but not as a philosophical theory of government as communism is.

2. Sorry John, but the NT as much as the OT is full of enterprise, personal initiative towards profit making in view to be able to help others with it when needed. This is capitalism.

3. Communism is a flawed theory that does not work because it deprives the individual from personal initiative and responsibility which were God given from the beginning to man.
Communism alocates and redistributes wealth by means of the the state to provide personal needs.
Biblically this is not ordained.
"And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without and that ye may have lack of nothing"

48

News Item1/22/2020 6:29 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
B. McCausland wrote:
Brother John, without wishing to open a can of worms about it, or restart the precedent topic of conversation, could you point out to some of those *certain similarities*, please?
My main misgiving about the issue is the parting grounds of communism as a philosophy and its code of ethics, which greatly differ, and even contradict, the bottom line of biblical philanthropy.
It might be useful to hear your take as perhaps you may have an insight we miss.
Many thanks
Sister B, I am quite happy to talk about it, although I do not have any set thoughts on the subject.

I think it was as a result of reading through the OT about ten times, and the NT multiple times, that I realised God had a great concern for the poor in our midst.

Under the theocracy, laws were given which assisted the poor and ensured they did not starve to death. Under the headship of Christ, the new apostolic church operated what we would call today an anti-capitalist system.

I only just discovered that "Christian Communism" is probably more valid than "Christian Capitalism", see article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism

47

News Item1/21/2020 2:33 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
John UK wrote:
Brother, do you believe then that there are some similarities between certain aspects of communism and the teaching of Jehovah in the OT and Jesus and the apostles in the NT?
Brother John, without wishing to open a can of worms about it, or restart the precedent topic of conversation, could you point out to some of those *certain similarities*, please?

My main misgiving about the issue is the parting grounds of communism as a philosophy and its code of ethics, which greatly difer, and even contradict, the bottom line of biblical philanthropy.

It might be useful to hear your take as perhaps you may have an insight we miss.
Many thanks

46

News Item1/20/2020 8:01 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
Mike, if the vegetables are organically grown, and are freshly dug, there is no doubt in my mind that in a strange way, if you eat them, they will make you feel somewhat better. This is God's plan, and it is a good one.
I certainly agree. The government experts here add fluoride to the water in our county to give us "strong teeth" This is totally bogus, but governments know sooo much about good health. I try to avoid contaminated food and water as much as possible. Helps to keep healthy and feel better, and avoid "healthcare" which is no healthcare at all, but sickness care. Just another fuzzy word to make us feel better about ourselves.
45

News Item1/20/2020 5:17 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
No
Thank you brother, explains much. I disagree, but will not take it any further.
44

News Item1/20/2020 4:47 AM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
John UK wrote:
Brother, do you believe then that there are some similarities between certain aspects of communism and the teaching of Jehovah in the OT and Jesus and the apostles in the NT?
No
43

News Item1/20/2020 4:45 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
John, at no time has this been a discussion about the merits of a government run healthcare. That’s a completely different topic that would be very difficult to cover in this type of forum given the character limitations. But you have described Cuba’s universal healthcare. UHC has the problem of limited resources and yes the wealthy are able to work around those limits and the not so wealthy are stuck dealing with those limits.
Brother, do you believe then that there are some similarities between certain aspects of communism and the teaching of Jehovah in the OT and Jesus and the apostles in the NT?
42

News Item1/19/2020 5:41 PM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
John, at no time has this been a discussion about the merits of a government run healthcare. That’s a completely different topic that would be very difficult to cover in this type of forum given the character limitations. But you have described Cuba’s universal healthcare. UHC has the problem of limited resources and yes the wealthy are able to work around those limits and the not so wealthy are stuck dealing with those limits.
41

News Item1/19/2020 4:21 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Bro US, I would be very interested to know which of the following you would like to see in the USA as a standard throughout.

1. The extremely rich can afford to buy their own physician, their own X-ray machines, dialysis machine, etc etc. If you're not extremely rich, tough.

2. The moderately rich middle classes, if they need to have their appendix out, can afford to go private and pay for their treatment because they can afford it. People that cannot afford it, tough.

3. People who can afford to pay health insurance, let them do so, because if they have a medical emergency and need treatment, it is there on tap, payed for by their insurance company. People that cannot afford the insurance premiums, tough.

4. People can entrust their healthcare to guv-funded enterprises (like the NHS), who supply funding from the guv coffers. Very poor people, or the long term sick, have their payments made by the guv, and receive benefits such as housing etc. Every UK citizen is eligible to access the full range of health care, including doctors, dentists, nurses, opticians etc etc.

5. Any other?

40

News Item1/19/2020 3:58 PM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
okay because i was mentioned in two comments, will respond.

The NHS has a number of funding sources that affect everyday purchases. There are Value added taxes (VAT) on items paid for by the consumer, business taxes that are passed on to the customer, exise fees on imports that are also passed onto the consumer and the high cost of fuel among those things that the public pay daily. Fuel alone adds to the cost of nearly everything as most products and services are delivered to the point of sale by vehicles. Transporters have to pay for the fuel and therefore include that into the delivery costs, which in turn is added to the cost of the item. The high fuel cost means all goods and services that are purchased have a higher cost due to paying for the fuel that is consumed in getting the product to market. Thus not only do you pay for fuel when you use public or private transportation, you also pay for it at restuarants, at various types of shops and stores, etc. It is part of everyday life. (no different over here)

So you have money that is part of daily expenses throughout the year paying for a portion of the NHS budget. Forgive me for not being able to say that something that is prepaid is "free" at the point of use.

39

News Item1/19/2020 1:16 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
John UK wrote:
Sister B, there might have been just cause for upset, if Bro US really imagined and was portraying that folks in the UK really thought that the services provided by the NHS were somehow delivered without any cost to anyone.
... in which case, he would have been attempting to upset us, telling us in no uncertain terms that folks who think the NHS services are free, are without doubt fools.
But none of us in the UK say that the services are "free", but "free at the point of use". There is a world of difference between these two.
Surely, taxation always falls along such benefits.
Take care
38

News Item1/19/2020 11:58 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
Maybe it's another word to be added to the fuzzy list, bro John. Until now I haven't engaged in this because I know how fruitless discussion can be when the common meaning of words isn't common. I was thinking that when I buy groceries, I might be tempted to make it seem innocuous if I said to myself, "Self, they are free at the point of use." After all, the point of use being the table, it doesn't cost me anything to actually eat them. But then I wonder if it would be for clarification, or in a strange way to make me somehow feel better? Is newspeak alive and well?
Mike, if the vegetables are organically grown, and are freshly dug, there is no doubt in my mind that in a strange way, if you eat them, they will make you feel somewhat better. This is God's plan, and it is a good one.
37

News Item1/19/2020 10:12 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
---
But none of us in the UK say that the services are "free", but "free at the point of use". There is a world of difference between these two.
Maybe it's another word to be added to the fuzzy list, bro John. Until now I haven't engaged in this because I know how fruitless discussion can be when the common meaning of words isn't common. I was thinking that when I buy groceries, I might be tempted to make it seem innocuous if I said to myself, "Self, they are free at the point of use." After all, the point of use being the table, it doesn't cost me anything to actually eat them. But then I wonder if it would be for clarification, or in a strange way to make me somehow feel better? Is newspeak alive and well?
36

News Item1/19/2020 4:45 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
B. McCausland wrote:
Nothing upsetting, Unprofitable, rather comical to observe your fixation.
Take care
Sister B, there might have been just cause for upset, if Bro US really imagined and was portraying that folks in the UK really thought that the services provided by the NHS were somehow delivered without any cost to anyone.

That would make UK folks out to be fools.

Mind you, the fact that he kept making the same point over and over, could point to him really thinking us to be fools, and he just wanted the world to know that. In which case, he would have been attempting to upset us, telling us in no uncertain terms that folks who think the NHS services are free, are without doubt fools.

But none of us in the UK say that the services are "free", but "free at the point of use". There is a world of difference between these two.

35

News Item1/18/2020 5:47 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
Nothing upsetting, Unprofitable, rather comical to observe your fixation.
Take care
34

News Item1/18/2020 2:31 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
Thanks for your thoughts and examples, You also have a good day
Thank you brother. I am just so glad that there is no need of medics in heaven, for that there is no ageing, no pain, no afflictions, no infirmities, no death. The former things will have passed away, and there will be a whole new way of living. Every day there will be a good day, praise God!
33

News Item1/18/2020 10:01 AM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
John UK wrote:
Personally I think the National Health Service in the UK is most wonderful, so too is the Fire Service, so too is the Police Force, so too is the Army, Navy and Air Forces. These are all paid for by taxation. How else would you do it?
_________________
Bro US, I have already shown how for some people their medical treatment truly was free, because they were taking out more than they were putting in. Others will put in and take nothing out because they never need it. Therefore some will put in, and others will take out. Car insurance works in exactly the same way; it is compulsory, and some will never claim, others will claim a lot. I might put in £3,000 over ten years and after an accident my insurance company may have to pay out £500,000 to a third party. So I paid the first £3,000 but the rest of it was paid for by others. In other words, not by me.
Thanks for your thoughts and examples, You also have a good day
32

News Item1/18/2020 5:22 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Personally I think the National Health Service in the UK is most wonderful, so too is the Fire Service, so too is the Police Force, so too is the Army, Navy and Air Forces. These are all paid for by taxation. How else would you do it?
_________________

Bro US, I have already shown how for some people their medical treatment truly was free, because they were taking out more than they were putting in. Others will put in and take nothing out because they never need it. Therefore some will put in, and others will take out. Car insurance works in exactly the same way; it is compulsory, and some will never claim, others will claim a lot. I might put in £3,000 over ten years and after an accident my insurance company may have to pay out £500,000 to a third party. So I paid the first £3,000 but the rest of it was paid for by others. In other words, not by me.

31

News Item1/18/2020 5:19 AM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
B. McCausland wrote:
US
There is no harm if you wish to rant till you are blue about the ills of a welfare system.
However insisting that 'free at the point of use' is not literally true is ridiculous.
We all know it is financed somehow.
You are playing with words to rant on a topic.
Bye.....
None has been a rant on my part. I haven't said, that I can recall, a thing about the ills of a welfare system. My point, whether or not you choose to acknowledge it, is that your healthcare is not and never will be free at anytime. You pay for it. However this discussion does seem to be upsetting you, so will let the topic go. Good day day sister.

Adriel appreciate your humor brother, may you also have a good day.

30
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