Jos. A. Bank, a chain known for selling suits to the corporate masses, began airing a television commercial earlier this month that features men in sport coats, khakis and jeans.
With fewer men buying suits, retailers of tailored clothing are trying to adapt to a world in which it is no longer unthinkable to wear Lululemon pants to the office.
āWe want to send the message that we can help with more than just suits,ā said Mary Beth Blake, Jos. A. Bankās brand president.
The hat; the shirt; the Jacket; even the trousers are all unisex garments. The distinguishing factor is the cut of the garment. The shirt becomes a blouse. The others become obviously 'feminine' or 'masculine'. Most women wear a jacket for Church which is distinctly female. Interestingly some women are anti-pants, yet the same distinguishing factor can obviously be applied to trousers. A man wouldnāt wear a feminine hat, or blouse or ladies trousers (or a dress).
In the Bible we know that men wore robes but distinguishable from female attire.
Today I would look silly if I dressed like either John the Baptist or the Puritans and strolled down the high street, so culture is relevant. We know C H Spurgeon or a āmodern man in a suit and tieā would also look very peculiar if time travelled back to the NT times.
Modesty of course is the priority, taking care not to follow what can be obvious sinful cultural fashions of this world, often by homosexual designers.
For those who insist men must wear a suit and tie, do we realise wear the neck tie originated? The Bible?
Where did the necktie originate and what is its purpose?
āThe Necktieā Robert W Reed https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=42714228492
Listen to the above as it would be interesting to he
Attire is hard to make a comment on because it is cultural. As has been pointed out modesty is always required. My thinking on this is as follows.
The example of dressing up because one is going before a dignitary and therefore we should dress our best for the worship of God falls apart in many areas.
1. The visit would be a one time event, those in the family of the dignitary donāt normally dress up special to see them as well as those who must have constant contact with them. We are family and have constant access to the the King of Kings.
2. There is no time we are not in Godās presence. Someone might have a pool that they use as a place of solitude as they swim (good exercise) they spend their time in private devotion to the Lord. Shower time could be used as one of giving thanks for health in many areas of our bodies (like eyes that see, ears that hear, nose that smells, or for arms and fingers, backs, hips, legs, feet that function properly) as well as things such as running water and electricity. It helps avoid taking things for granted. (Acts 17:28)
3. While we look at outward attire, God views our hearts. There are probably men who wear jeans and shirt to services that are far more in tune with God than others who wear fancy suits.
Thanks 'sc' for that very Scriptural reminder. I wonder if you could convince your pastor to 'ditch his suit' when he preaches on that Scriptural passage? Or the elders when it comes time to serve the Lord's Supper, or the deacons when it comes time to collect the offering?
Presenting our bodies as a living sacrifice and worshiping in spirit and truth are not to be considered just at a physical place of worship. We are the temple of God. It's not so much the attire we wear for church but how we present ourselves as a testimony at all times, at all places. Immodest at church is immodest everywhere else.
Banks is more famous for overpricing their items, then putting them on sale. They say this shirt was originally 70 dollars, but today only we reduced it to 30 dollars--what a deal for you! In reality, they never sold the shirt for 70. They were sued in court on this and had to settle it. A lot of stores play the same games.
No shorts Frank? Itās hot in Florida!āŗļø but I agree with the sentiment that one may have a conscience that sees it as disrespectful to God to dress at a certain level of casualness. On the other hand, Iād just like to say that there may be many reasons why people either dress up or down. One for dressing down could be modesty, financial modesty that is. Someone could not wear there nicer shoes or shirts and opt for a more plain or casual piece so as to not make people who donāt have nice clothes to feel at ease. Iād say most of us here can agree that it is a matter of conscience before the Lord with a few guiding principles in scripture, but nothing direct.
Frank Wrote: "Chris, I really enjoyed your below comment..."
Thanks for the feedback, Frank. I've held that particular view for as long as I can remember, but at the same time, I can't say I've ever grimaced at anyone who was dressed down, unless it was immodest. When I notice immodest dress, my thought is, "How disrespectful", whether female or male. When I notice someone in a t-shirt type of top, or whatever, I really don't think anything, and for a couple of reasons: 1) I'm only responsible for myself, and, 2) they're not violating scripture, as far as I know.
My thoughts are my own, as far as wanting to show God respect, and that He's important enough for me to dress up for. On the other hand, I could also conclude that I can go as I am, because God loves me as I am, and the contents of my heart are what's important; not what I choose to cover myself with. I'm just laying this out there more for Connor, because my thoughts on it are my own, and I really can't judge if someone holds to the latter view, which doesn't always boil down to any lack of respect, especially for Connor, who I know has the utmost respect for The Most High.
When I stand before God in His House I want to look my best. I consider that part of respect for the Lord. I want to have the Lord perceive in my heart that I have made an effort for Him.
I have never worn a T-shirt and never worn shorts since my child hood.
I still feel convinced that modern dress code is part of the modern apostasy and a lack of respect in the modern generation generally. {Liberalism???}
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
In 1Tim 2:9 the ladies are advised to dress respectfully. The men accordingly should do likewise. This for me is an attitude of 'mind' (choice) not just physical appearance.
An interesting point is made in 1Peter 3:4 "which is in the sight of God of great price."
This is my last comment. I donāt have a command to wear a suit, or tie. Where is the command? You can try to extrapolate it out of the OT commands that were given to a specific people, and apply that principal to a somewhat modern set of garments (17th century) of which we call a suit, but the connection is clearly lacking.
If a position has to commit logical fallacies category errors, unsupported conclusions, and some unusual statements about what a t shirt represents, Iāll stay clear of that position.
But in case youāre wondering, when I teach at my church, or another church, or when I sing in the choir, I do āgive upā my Christian liberty and wear a suite.
@Wayfarer, Iām 23...are you trying to say something about me? š
People only dress up for special occasions. If church isnāt special, go ahead and wear the saggy shorts and wife beaters, the hoodies and pajama bottoms you normally wear. That works for a rock concert, which is all a lot of so-called church services amount to nowadays anyway. In other words, if youāre going somewhere to act like the world, you might as well look like the world. And you āladiesā be sure to wear yoga pants and sports bras and any other painted-on, hook-baiting garb you can come up with. You wouldnāt want anyone to get the idea you think youāre ābetterā than she is. When in Rome, do as the Romans do; when in Gomorrahāwell, you get the picture.
āThe t-shirt still remains an item belonging to a frivolous life style, representing a sloppy, do-it-your-own-way philosophy, which does not necessarily represent biblical value or terms.ā
No it does not. T-shirts are a garment that covers you. If someone were to ask me why I wear a shirt, itās because I donāt want to go around shirtless. Or as someone once said, āModesty is the best policy.ā
In fact, your statement is subjective, not objective, you have no facts supporting your position it is simply your personal opinion that you think to be true.
But in your example of the priests, again thereās another category error, they were commanded to do it. Jesus, the great high priest, never wore it. The apostles probably werenāt decked out in the fanciest garb.
I really enjoyed your below comment and it was very wise! One extreme would be wearing tuxedos and fancy dresses and the other would letās say wear bathing suits. I have been to churches were most men wear suits and most women wear dresses and I have been to churches where some dress in shorts. My only goal was to personally dress respectful and nothing more. I would wear dress pants and a dress shirt. I never had any positive thoughts about those that were in suits or the ladies who were in fancy dresses.
But I did have negative thoughts about women who would wear jeans because they are generally immodest and I donāt believe men should wear shorts or other everyday attire because that would be disrespectful.
But like you so wisely said; if a bum or homeless person came in wearing whatever they had, then they should be respected and treated the same as any other person. The bum could easily be a brother or sister in Christ or simply have no other attire.
James 2:3 āAnd ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:ā
Please...nobody should take this personal in any way, because these are my thoughts on this topic, long before reading any individual comments.
There's a new series of satellite churches that have popped up around me, Waters church. There's a main church, but others will meet in theaters, and other one-day-a-week spaces like that, such as bowling alleys, etc. One of their main slogans is, "Come as you are"...sort of like Planet Fitness' judgement-free zone. To me, come as you are should mean that you don't need to be well dressed, perfectly groomed, and smelling of perfume and cologne in order to enter in God's house, but out of respect for an Holy God, one should dress appropriately and smartly, insofar as one is able. Where I would bend on this is the homeless person who has no choice but to truly come as they are, the drug addict who has nothing, and the dirt poor who does their best with what they have as their Sunday best.
Does God care how we dress? I don't really know, but how I look at it is as a form of respect for the Holy and perfect God that we are raising our hands to, in praise and worship. Hats, ultra dressdowns, and borderline immodesty, for those who are able to do better, is far too casual, considering who's in our presence. That's my take, anyway.
Connor, the slogan displayed on your t-shirt does not 'sanitize' the casual garment you wear in the context of the accepted Western dress code of respect for men nowadays. The t-shirt still remains an item belonging to a frivolous life style, representing a sloppy, do-it-your-own-way philosophy, which does not necessarily represent biblical value or terms.
The garments of salvation include honour, the same as the garments of the high priest were designed for beauty and *honour*. Honour is setting something aside from the common or ordinary with the aim of showing a particular deference and a higher estimation towards it. Bringing God to the realm of the common is never a good idea.
"Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness". Holiness is blameless, which if excludes the sense of rendering honour to whom honour is due it misses the point on the pretence of sacrifice before obedience. Sadly God seems to deserve little honour in the mind of some.
On the other hand if your sense of holiness includes self-will, not only it contradicts your slogan as a supposed 'slave', but the law of God.
Check your thinking against the other reasons already presented in my previous posts. Take care
Some nowadays seek to dissociate honour from their system of morality, as if the issue of rendering honour manifested by tangible /visual tokens of respect, was an optional clause in life. Yet these same individuals however will not argue, but gladly comply about a military, professional or etiquette uniform for earthly matters, though the doctrine of honour goes throughout the Bible in many shapes and renderings.
A worship 'in my own terms' is the offspring of regarding god as my buddy, so prevalent in easy belivism. It is concluded that the little god of our human fabrication needs by definition to accept my specific terms of commitment or respect.
@QC, I think the White House has protocols on how you dress, Iām sure Spain has something similar. Iād wear a suit because I have to, not because I want to.
@BMC, & Adriel, is it wrong for me to wear a t-shirt that says āslave of Jesus Christ ā and khakis while attending a church service, if so why is it wrong and what is your standard for it being wrong?
'God looks at the heart' some argue, as if God's eye lacked the integrity of presence and character to overlook the mixed message our physical appearance declares, having in mind that what is inside always comes out declaring true intentions. A heart sorted in selfserving autocrat wishes will hardly ever yield to etiquette, or protocol for the sake of honour or respect. The same Scripture that says 'rent your hearts and not your garments', also advised somewhere else to wash our bodies with pure water, or to make our garments white. The fact that God uses analogies as pure linen to show integral purity is an indicative of his holistic view of man. We conveniently subdivide our being into the physical and spiritual as if they made two different entities. Such is the heritage of Augustinian folly.
What I really need to do is look at Leviticus for how the priests were to dress for clues as to the moral law behind appropriate dress, at least for myself. There are other clues in the NT, but most of those that come to mind refer to women.
Difficult topic. I wore a suit Sunday morning, but not every man there did and I don't always. I'm trying to work thru this topic to have a Biblical response and viewpoint. Here's where I'm at myself. In general, I see the Lord much more interested in the quality of heart than the quality of the clothes. But principles are at play:
If any of us received an invitation to visit the King of Spain or any of the monarchs that remain in our day, we would likely dress up. Same with the White House. To do otherwise would be to dishonor the principal. When we meet with the King of Kings, which isn't a perfect analogy because He lives in us and we are never without Him as believers, should we dress appropriate for such a Potentate? Our view of who God is plays into how we address Him.
But culture and other people's approval is a big factor why we wear what we wear, no matter what we say we believe. Dressing nicely has a variety of different connotations today depending on the church or group.
In general, we have become much more casual. In the 1950s into the 60s, no man of any stature would be caught dead in public in a pair of blue jeans or sweat pants. Men wore nice slacks, a button down shirt, and likely a sport coat and tie. That lasted in some circles into the 70s. Today, p
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