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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  9/21/2019
MONDAY, MAR 4, 2019  |  115 comments
Wrestler forfeits state tournament match rather than wrestle girl
A Colorado high school student forfeited the state tournament match rather than wrestle a girl during the match.

Brendan Johnston, 18, a senior at the Classical Academy in Colorado Springs, Colo., forfeited his match against Jaslynn Gallegos, a senior at Skyview High in the first round of the tournament on Thursday, Feb. 21, KDVR reported. A few days later on Saturday, Feb. 23, he forfeited the match against Angel Rios, a junior at Valley High, in the third-round consolation match, ending his high school wrestling career.

The student cited his religious and personal beliefs for forfeiting the matches. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 115 user comment(s)
News Item3/13/19 4:13 PM
Christopher00 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher00
...Before being told that I need to give my answer, there's a caveat...should I answer with, "Yes, I'm certain that wrestling is a sin, and therefore, wickedness, and be wrong, I'm told that I will be condemned for all eternity.

I realize this might seem a bit unusual, and extreme, but trying to imagine myself in that do or die moment, while trying to imagine being perfectly honest with myself; all pride, and stubbornness aside, I've found that there have been plenty of things that I've been certain of that I suddenly became uncertain of, and ended up answering, "I don't really know for certain", afterall, and now, I'm just "pretty certain".

I just used wrestling since I'm posting here, but apply it to any unsettled areas where arguments abound, and everyone seems to have evidence to argue their case.

115

News Item3/13/19 4:10 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
I like to think of myself as being pretty reasonable, and open-minded, especially when it comes to God's Word. Considering topics, while trying to set aside those things we learned at first, prior indoctrination, along with pre-conceived ideas, views, and subjective opinions, based upon life experiences, or whatever their source, is no easy thing to do. I think some disagreements are based upon these very things; making us immovable, and unshakeable on topics that we're "certain" of, and they become so hardwired, that no matter what, that's the way it is, and nobody will ever sway us away from what we already know for "certain"...nobody will ever tempt us to take another look at something, just to be sure. Now, there are many things that we should be absolutely certain of, and on the same page, but there are also those areas where opposing positions have valid arguments.

Here's what I've done from time to time, when I think I'm beyond certain of something, but others claim different: I'll imagine myself being given a choice, and I'll use wrestling as the example here. I'll imagine myself being asked if I'm certain that wrestling is a sin, and therefore, wickedness, but also given the option to concede, and answer, "I don't really know for certain", if I chose to.

OOS.

114

News Item3/13/19 12:47 PM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
Good morning sc

I wanted to address your opinion, "You both are off the deep end." This would be valid IF you could have supported your stance with the word of God.

"Don't speak evil against each other, brethren" (James 4:11). That which is here forbidden, is the saying of anything, be it true or false, to the harm of another. God requires that our words should be governed by "the law of kindness" (Proverbs 31:26), and anything which would hurt or injure the reputation of another is to be rigidly shunned. Whenever I cannot speak well of my brother or sister, I must say nothing at all. It is devilish to take delight in exposing the faults of fellow-Christians, and stirring up prejudice and bitter feelings against them (Rev. 12:10). God requires that our words should agree with love—as well as with truth." A.W. Pink from 'evil speaking

We are to correct others in error, how? With the word of God and in love. That's a tough lesson isn't it? "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted." Gal. 6:1

You may proceed in your correcting, but use His word and not your opinion.

113

News Item3/13/19 10:19 AM
sc  Find all comments by sc
Unprofitable...you often err in adding to what I have written. I didn't say that one could not have fun. I said that wrestling, in Scripture, is not for that purpose. The onus is on you all, not me.
It must not have been too much fun for Jacob when he walked away with a limp and your view of God is warped if you think that He delighted in causing Jacob physical pain.
Being the monster tickling your grandson is hardly analogous to wrestling as a sport in this country.
You both are off the deep end.
112

News Item3/12/19 3:05 PM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
I believe you will need to rethink your reasoning about whether the wrestling match between God and Jacob was competitive. God versus man is no competition. Yet the Lord chose to wrestle Jacob as His equal. The Bible clearly states the when He saw that He could not prevail He touched Jacob’s thigh. You can ask canucklehead about his competitive wrestling days. His goal was to prevail against his opponent, to win the match. There was obviously competition found in Jacob’s wrestling with God

God enjoys blessing His people, so fun may have been a factor, don’t know

111

News Item3/12/19 2:10 PM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
sc's rabbit trails will catch up to her one day.
The bible nowhere condemns competition, nowhere condemns participating in a sport. Competition, if done fairly, is not sinful.

Legalism finds fault with everything, then like a good Pharisee, proclaiming all who act 'worldly'- in this case, by competing in a wrestling match, are horrific sinners.

This young man has shown more discernment than sc could ever hope to acquire. He chose to act like a gentleman, put his desire to win at all cost aside, and chose NOT to compete against a girl, who is the one in error. She should never enter into the realm of a man's competiton. This is the result of feminism - strange how sc and her friend can't see that. She gets a pass, the young man gets condemned by the Pharisees. Outward religiosity is no different now than it was in our Lord's day.

I suppose it's sinful for me to wrestle with my grandson, who is four. It is sinful for me to be the 'tickle monster' for that would be labeled 'fun' and 'sport' in sc's book. Praise God I don't have to meet her standards.

Enough time has been spent on this, only God can grant understanding. That is my prayer for all who hold to a works based list of do's and don'ts brand of religion.

110

News Item3/12/19 2:01 PM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
sc wrote:
Further, it definitely was not for the fun or sport of it.
Wow, now we know we can't do anything for fun or competition. Hope Christopher is paying attention.
109

News Item3/12/19 1:51 PM
Found it  Find all comments by Found it
Hezekiah 5:6

Thou shalt not participate in any organized sports and especially wrestling

108

News Item3/12/19 1:51 PM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
sc,
You are tapdancing again.
Now, let's hear from Matthew Poole -
There wrestled a man with him, an angel, yea, the Angel of the covenant, the Son of God, as it is plain from Genesis 32:28,30 Ho 12:3,4, who did here, as oft elsewhere, assume the shape and body of a man {take note sc}, that he might do this work; for this wrestling was real and corporeal in its nature, though it was also mystical and spiritual in its signfification, as we shall see, and it was accompanied with an inward wrestling by ardent prayers joined with tears.
Genesis 32:25
And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
Not through impotency, but in design, the angel suffered himself to be conquered, to encourage Jacob’s faith and hope against the approaching danger.
The hollow of Jacob’s thigh was out of joint, which was done that Jacob might see that it was not his own strength, but only God’s grace, which got him this victory, and could give him the deliverance which he hoped for.

So, Jacob's opponent was a man, flesh and blood. A man, according to vs. 24 -'enosh'- man, mortal man. 'Wrestle' to grapple

Hope your day goes well sc

107

News Item3/12/19 1:42 PM
sc  Find all comments by sc
You need to reread what I wrote. I was very emphatic about how we wrestle not against flesh and blood. We do not and Jacob did not. God is not flesh and blood. Jacob wrestled God. The form which God took (man) didn't diminish the fact that He was God.
Further, it definitely was not for the fun or sport of it.
106

News Item3/12/19 12:32 PM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
You did say physical wrestling is wrong, I already quoted you on that. So, you say Jacob wrestled God - this is true. BTW, we know this was a 'physical match' because Jacob's hip was out of joint as a result.

Now, since you claim physical wrestling is wrong/sinful/evil, then are you also saying the physical wrestling match between God and Jacob is wrong/sinful/evil?

105

News Item3/12/19 12:29 PM
sc  Find all comments by sc
I didn't say that Jacob didn't wrestle God...surely you understand the difference between wrestling mere man (flesh and blood) vs. wrestling God...powers,principalities,etc.?
104

News Item3/12/19 10:31 AM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
Good morning sc

Your claim now is that Jacob didn't wrestle God? If so,then you call God a liar, for Jacob himself said, "for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved" - Gen. 32:30

As US has said, it was a Christophony, but you can't admit that. If you did, then you would have to admit your error. Rather than admit your error, you would rather accuse God of sin and call Him a liar by claiming Jacob wrestled a mere mortal man that wasn't Christ, this mortal man blessed Jacob and changed his name to 'Israel'.

May the Lord be gracious to you.

103

News Item3/12/19 9:59 AM
sc  Find all comments by sc
There is a difference between simply man and God so Jacob's wrestling event cannot be used to support wrestling for a sport.
102

News Item3/12/19 7:43 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
I typed that up early yesterday, and had pretty much decided not to even post it up because of the temperature of the thread.

How sad it is when people who claim to be brothers and sisters in Christ, and this includes myself, can't hold calm and rational discussions over an item as innocuous high school wrestling. I've been having trouble processing how it is that this travelled from a kid who gave up wrestling, which he loved to do, because he wasn't comfortable wrestling a girl, to, "Why is this sinner wrestling in the first place?" We went from a kid who decided to take a stand for what he felt was right, and good, to, "Why was this kid wrestling naked, and okay with causing another great physical harm?"

I'm still thinking this all over, but really, as of right now, I view it as a matter of personal conscience, as opposed to some "mortal" sin that needs to be repented of...or else.

Again, two children wrestling around on the grass...is that wickednesss? Could Jesus have possibly played, and wrestled around as a child; taking advantage of the joy of childhood? When two children are wrestling around, and trying to prove who's stronger, is the response, "What are you wicked little things doing..repent of this foolishness!"? Should they be punished?

101

News Item3/12/19 6:40 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
I was trying to imagine, today, Jesus as a child, and if He would have played, and wrestled around with His brothers, and His friends, etc. I'm not being flippant here, and it's something I've wondered about in the past. Through the years, when I've seen kids playing, and wrestling around on a front lawn, or at a park, etc., I've never thought to myself, "How wicked...their parents must not be Christians to allow such a thing". I'm not a fan of wrestling, but if the word was never mentioned, I would think this threads topic was about MMA. We're not talking about one kid being bullied, or some death match where two opponents walk out onto a mat, filled with hatred, eyes red with rage, and all pumped and hyped up to murder each other, or to even inflict intentional harm/pain, really. We're talking about kids who both signed up to compete, and test their grappling skills in a controlled, regulated, and closely supervised environment. They're not there to punch, kick each other in the head, or beat each other senseless with clubs, but just to wrestle, as all young boys do, only for competetion. They're not mortal enemies before, or after, and giving this a lot of thought, I just can't grasp how they are in sin, as if one is the bully, and the other, his unwilling victim.😕
100

News Item3/11/19 9:52 PM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Not sure why the name calling and sarcasm are necessary I am just a sinner saved by grace. Sadly there are many times I have failed my Lord and I still have daily fights with the world the flesh and the devil. I know there is daily much mortification that has to take place. I know from reading scores of sister ladybug’s posts that she follows Romans 12:3 in her life.

If you think wrestling is wrong, you are more than entitled to your thinking.

Romand 14:14  I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

No one here is even advocating for attending a wrestling match, they were complimenting a young man who choose to do what was right despite the personal sacrifice it cost him. Positive stories are rare in this day and age.

The problem I have is y’all trying to bind the conscience of every believer to your thinking and insisting that those who don’t hold your viewpoint are proud, stubborn, not spiritual, worldly, compromisers, etc. As ladybug has aptly pointed out, your stance is not rooted on firm Scriptural grounds.

Many more things come to mind and probably should be addressed but don’t feel the liberty to share them.

99

News Item3/11/19 8:02 PM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
Canucklehead,
Both you and sc were asked repeatedly to provide scripture to verify your stance, neither of you did, other than twisting Matthew 5 and putting your own spin as to why Jacob wrestled God. Your spiritual gymnastics truly is something to behold.
You both claim wrestling is a sin, yet Jacob wrestled God. Big egos and pride are usually accredited to those who refuse to admit they are wrong, which both you and sc are. There simply is no scriptural support for calling wrestling a sin.
It is shameful to see you and sc resort to the tactics you both have used. You cannot provide evidence from the word of God, so you attack those who point out your faulty views. This isn't anything new to this forum.

If wrestling is a sin, as you both imply, then suffice to say you both have accused a holy God of being in sin; after all, He did wrestle against Jacob until daybreak. then you back away from that and go off on another rabbit trail, twisting God's precious word as you go.
Only God can open a blind eye. Just as in Christ's day, the Pharisees reject correction, attack God's people, then go about their prideful ways thanking their 'god' they aren't like us. If you could only see and hear. May the Lord be gracious and have mercy on all who adhere to outward religion.

98

News Item3/11/19 6:12 PM
Canucklehead  Find all comments by Canucklehead
sc wrote:
Jacob was first a deceiver.
We're all brats until we have the fear of the Lord.
Spiritual pride is not taking a stand for that which is true.
People with big toes always accuse those who are in disagreement with them as being self-righteous.
Amen...I think we need to back off and allow the dynamic duo to have the spotlight. Big egos and pride always demands the spotlight.

What is it they want us to admit? Wrestling and competitive sports are okay as long as the participants don't cheat? What if this discussion took place in ancient Rome? We would be talking about wrestlers with no clothes on instead of a second skin. Of course, seeing as nothing's changed, it would be argued that wrestling would be okay as long as the participants didn't cheat. Nothing's new under the sun.

97

News Item3/11/19 6:02 PM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
So, God wrestled with Jacob because he was a brat? Then God blessed Jacob afterward? God blesses bratty behavior?

Rather, Jacob persevered, he would NOT let go until God blessed him. You both missed the lesson completely, then you both turn around and let your accusations fly towards those who only seek to correct. It's telling when someone refuses correction, it's even more telling when they make accusations that simply are not true.

Which takes me back to my original point - self examination. God help you if you refuse this necessity.

96
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