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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  3/29/2020
FRIDAY, JUN 5, 2015  |  116 comments
Pope's rebel advisors break Vatican code of silence

External experts brought in by Pope Francis to help tackle the tiny city state's ills are answering the papal call for openness -- and infuriating some Holy See stalwarts in the process.

Over the past few months members of the pope's commission for child protection -- handpicked by Francis to help root out sex abuse in the Catholic Church -- have publicly attacked a cardinal and a bishop.

The cardinal in question is the Vatican's finance chief George Pell, who was accused by commissioner Peter Saunders of being an "almost sociopathic" man who covered up abuse and tried to buy the silence of at least one victim. ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
news.yahoo.com

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 116 user comment(s)
News Item6/10/15 7:59 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Pinchbeck wrote:
---
PS: The struggle within the sinner implies that a resistance will be experienced.
The struggle is the new man struggling with the old. Romans 7:13-25

peacemaker wrote:
Prevenient grace as you well know, is just a human invention by the humanist Arminians to fabricate their religious ideology
prevenient: that which comes before. By definition all grace is prevenient, for it always precedes that which the grace brings about. Even your irresistible grace is prevenient.
116

News Item6/10/15 5:56 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Michael Hranek wrote:
Way Crafty isn't it.
Here is the antidote.
Treat the Bible, God's word as if it is LAW, it is BTW (Psalm 138:2) not just a book of good spiritual insights, experiences and suggestions.
Then when we look at the very real wonderful Sovereignty of God in and over all things we will be Biblical and therefore right in our worship.
You got me really thinking with that one, St Michael.

Jeremiah 29:11-14 KJV
(11) For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
(12) Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
(13) And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
(14) And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.

Is there any reason why these words for the Jews could not apply to any penitent sinner, as an encouragement to seek the Lord with a whole heart?

115

News Item6/10/15 5:24 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Find all comments by Michael Hranek
John UK wrote:
Yes, I believe it is possible, making such things into an idol to worship them, rather like the statues in a RCC
Way Crafty isn't it.

Here is the antidote.
Treat the Bible, God's word as if it is LAW, it is BTW (Psalm 138:2) not just a book of good spiritual insights, experiences and suggestions.

Then when we look at the very real wonderful Sovereignty of God in and over all things we will be Biblical and therefore right in our worship.

114

News Item6/10/15 4:50 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Michael H wrote:
John the real question is can you worship the theology of Dhordt and the WCF
Yes, I believe it is possible, making such things into an idol to worship them, rather like the statues in a RCC, when people go up and kiss their feet etc.

As Matthew Henry says, that real Christianity is both experiential and experimental, and without both these things men have only a theological assent without the new birth. This is why they can do nothing for the kingdom of God while on earth. They know not the gospel nor the power of it, they may be baptised (sprinkled) but have never died and risen with Christ. They vainly imagine that genealogy affects God's election, but the Bible denies such nonsense. Etc. Etc. Etc.

113

News Item6/10/15 4:37 PM
Michael H | In an undisclosed parking lot in BGMN  Find all comments by Michael H
John the real question is can you worship the theology of Dhordt and the WCF
112

News Item6/10/15 4:35 PM
Michael H | In an undisclosed parking lot in N  Find all comments by Michael H
111

News Item6/10/15 4:06 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
peacemaker wrote:
Now come on John
Prevenient grace as you well know, is just a human invention by the humanist Arminians to fabricate their religious ideology.
Prevenient means.......?

Observe my post again, and read slower. God is also reading it.

[Of course, everyone believes in prevenient grace, that is, the grace of God working in the heart before conversion. It's just that Arminians believe God gives that grace to all and sundry, therefore whether or not a person is saved is dependent on a correct response to grace, which effectively means a salvation by works; or, for those who believe in the Doctrines of Grace (biblical) this prevenient grace is granted unto those chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, that is, elect souls, and it is such a powerful expression of grace that the particular sinner cannot resist such love shown towards him, nor does he want to, rather his new desire is to seek the Lord while he may be found, and call on him while he is near. His new desire is to love, serve, and worship such a great God.]

Now is your desire to love, serve and worship such a great God?

Remember that God is reading your posts as well.

110

News Item6/10/15 3:54 PM
peacemaker  Find all comments by peacemaker
John UK wrote:
prevenient grace
Now come on John
Prevenient grace as you well know, is just a human invention by the humanist Arminians to fabricate their religious ideology. Jacob and Wesley believe all that fairy tale stuff. Dear ole Wesley even believed we could be perfect this side of the strait gate.

"Now, if the earthly Canaan, which was only a transitory inheritance, was unattainable by human merit; if even worldly possessions are not given us for our own righteousness sake; who shall dare to say, that heaven itself is the purchase of our own righteousness! If our works cannot merit even the vanishing conveniences and supplies of time: how is it possible, that we should be able to merit the endless riches of eternity? We shall need no cautions against self-righteousness, when we get safe to that better country. The language of our hearts, and of our voices, will be; and angels will join the concert; and all the elect, both angels and men, will, for ever and ever, strike their harps to this key; "Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us, but to Thy Name, give the glory, for Thy loving mercy, and for Thy truth's sake." (Toplady)

109

News Item6/10/15 2:40 PM
Pinchbeck | NFK  Find all comments by Pinchbeck
Mike wrote:
the elect cannot resist the Holy Spirit
"They resisted the Holy Ghost striving with them by their own consciences, and would not comply with the convictions and dictates of them. God's Spirit strove with them as with the old world, but in vain; they resisted him, took part with their corruptions against their convictions, and rebelled against the light. There is that in our sinful hearts that always resists the Holy Ghost, a flesh that lusts against the Spirit, and wars against his motions; but in the hearts of God's elect, when the fulness of time comes, this resistance is overcomer and overpowered, and after a struggle the throne of Christ is set up in the soul, and every thought that had exalted itself against it is brought into captivity to it, 2 Co. 10:4, 5. That grace therefore which effects this change might more fitly be called victorious grace than irresistible." (M. Henry)

Similar subject;
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."

PS: The struggle within the sinner implies that a resistance will be experienced.

108

News Item6/10/15 11:52 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
Bro John, if I read you rightly, the elect cannot resist the Holy Spirit. That being said, are those who resist the Holy Spirit therefore non-elect? If so, what is it they are resisting? It has been said that God passes the non-elect by. If that be so, methinks there is nothing for them to resist. Yet:
Acts 7:51
"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."
Brother St Mike,

You ask some good questions, which I shall attempt to answer off the top.

I believe the elect can resist the Holy Ghost for a season, until the loving Lord breaks through and wins the battle. This is why I praise the Lord so much, because he won.

The sermon in Acts 7 was a proclaiming of God's word, as he went into all the OT history of the Jews. Thus he was acting as a prophetic historian, and the resistance to this preaching was counted as a resistance to the Holy Ghost, because it was the Holy Ghost who authored the scriptures.

I don't know what the theologians think about it, but that's my initial response, bro.

107

News Item6/10/15 11:23 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Find all comments by Michael Hranek
peacemaker wrote:
Canons of Dordt.
peacemaker
I'd be really careful with that Dordt stuff if I were you. It is IMHO where the enormous imbalance of the Sovereignty of God and the Responsibility of man has gotten greatly confused.

for example
If one overemphasized "faith" as the gift of God, instead of eternal life being the gift of God (Yes, none can have Biblical faith unless God gives/authors that, so don't think I am saying faith is not a gift)

A distortion can set in with some: 'I believe the TULIP of Dhordt therefore I must be saved, and those who don't believe the TULIP of Dhordt must be lost, damnable hell deserving sinners'

Really? Not if they're saved by God and for God

Biblical Faith has Jesus Christ as its object, foremost love, a real experiencial knowing of Him, not the theological teaching of men (WCF as example), Biblical Saving Faith believing the promises of God results in (hold on tight here) works (of obedience to God, doing the will of God, following Jesus), and both Jesus and James makes this clear

Dhordt sometimes is similar to a "Once saved always saved" go to heaven when I die mentality ('I'm save/elect so don't bother me with obdedience')

NOT a Changed/New Creation life that make ex-sinners holy

106

News Item6/10/15 11:22 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
---
It's just that Arminians believe God gives that grace to all and sundry, therefore whether or not a person is saved is dependent on a correct response to grace, which effectively means a salvation by works; or, for those who believe in the Doctrines of Grace (biblical) this prevenient grace is granted unto those chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, that is, elect souls, and it is such a powerful expression of grace that the particular sinner cannot resist such love shown towards him, nor does he want to, rather his new desire is to seek the Lord while he may be found, and call on him while he is near. His new desire is to love, serve, and worship such a great God.
Bro John, if I read you rightly, the elect cannot resist the Holy Spirit. That being said, are those who resist the Holy Spirit therefore non-elect? If so, what is it they are resisting? It has been said that God passes the non-elect by. If that be so, methinks there is nothing for them to resist. Yet:

Acts 7:51
"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."

105

News Item6/10/15 11:15 AM
Mourner  Find all comments by Mourner
@peacemaker

Do you believe that the WCF is an historical document that is a subordinate standard to the Word of God?

Do you believe that it was given by pastor/teachers to bring about that which is spoken of in Ephesians 4:2-16?

Do you believe what is stated in the 1648 Edition of the WCF LC Q.65-80?

104

News Item6/10/15 10:56 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
peacemaker wrote:
John and Michael.
Remember faith is the gift of God provided to His elect only.
Oh, the mystery explained.

Well, not such a mystery; he will hardly author faith in the non-elect, will he? Duh........

Anyway, glad you agree with Mr Spurgeon, in his getting sinners to "look upwards" and to be convinced they can do nothing towards their salvation, and that they need to cry out to God, "Lord, save me!"

Of course, everyone believes in prevenient grace, that is, the grace of God working in the heart before conversion. It's just that Arminians believe God gives that grace to all and sundry, therefore whether or not a person is saved is dependent on a correct response to grace, which effectively means a salvation by works; or, for those who believe in the Doctrines of Grace (biblical) this prevenient grace is granted unto those chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, that is, elect souls, and it is such a powerful expression of grace that the particular sinner cannot resist such love shown towards him, nor does he want to, rather his new desire is to seek the Lord while he may be found, and call on him while he is near. His new desire is to love, serve, and worship such a great God.

103

News Item6/10/15 10:21 AM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
John UK wrote:
Two big ditches into which many fall.
well said gentlemen!
102

News Item6/10/15 9:26 AM
peacemaker  Find all comments by peacemaker
John and Michael.
Remember faith is the gift of God provided to His elect only. NOT because of something they did or can do, BUT because HE alone elects them, and bestows faith upon them.

3/4
"14 Faith is therefore to be considered as the gift of God, not on account of its being offered by God to man, to be accepted or rejected at his pleasure; but because it is in reality conferred, breathed, and infused into him; or even because God bestows the power or ability to believe, and then expects that man should by the exercise of his own free will, consent to the terms of that salvation, and actually believe in Christ; but because he who works in man both to will and to do, and indeed all things in all, produces both the will to believe, and the act of believing also."
Canons of Dordt.

1Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will"

101

News Item6/10/15 7:15 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Michael Hranek wrote:
Peacemaker
John UK Wales
Spurgeon touched on very important matter Imho there be two serious ditches involved.
True real genuine honest to "can't say goodness" arminians, imagine sin aint that bad, it is something they can fix up with a little bit of prayer etc. ignoring the fallen lostness of the nature of deliberate depravity they were born with and God owes them nothing
Do nothing hyper-Calvinists err in a horrible different direction, essentially forbiding people (whosoever will) to seek God and cry out to Him for mercy because there is effort involved, which they frightfully confuse and distort with human effort to earn, deserve, merit, make God owe them religious fantasies
Two big ditches into which many fall.
100

News Item6/10/15 6:37 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Find all comments by Michael Hranek
peacemaker wrote:
EG:
"What the Arminian

C. H. Spurgeon

Peacemaker
John UK Wales

Spurgeon touched on very important matter Imho there be two serious ditches involved.

True real genuine honest to "can't say goodness" arminians, imagine sin aint that bad, it is something they can fix up with a little bit of prayer etc. ignoring the fallen lostness of the nature of deliberate depravity they were born with and God owes them nothing

Do nothing hyper-Calvinists err in a horrible different direction, essentially forbiding people (whosoever will) to seek God and cry out to Him for mercy because there is effort involved, which they frightfully confuse and distort with human effort to earn, deserve, merit, make God owe them religious fantasies

Grace is not opposed to effort, in truth grace ought to rightfully motivate great effort, grace is opposed to merit.

Biblical Faith rests on the Promises of God, AND ACTS (humbly acts) UPON THEM ACCORDINGLY; (BTW resulting in doing His will) Trusting in the One who gave them, He didn't lie to them did He!

The Holy Ghost, and godly preachers point sinners to God's word that they might act on it

e.i of effort
issue of blood
opened the roof
wept over His feet
have mercy!

99

News Item6/9/15 5:09 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
peacemaker wrote:
EG:
"What the Arminian wants to do is to arouse man's activity: what we want to do is to kill it once for all---to show him that he is lost and ruined, and that his activities are not now at all equal to the work of conversion; that he must look upward. They seek to make the man stand up: we seek to bring him down, and make him feel that there he lies in the hand of God, and that his business is to submit himself to God, and cry aloud, 'Lord, save, or we perish.' We hold that man is never so near grace as when he begins to feel he can do nothing at all. When he says, 'I can pray, I can believe, I can do this, and I can do the other,' marks of self-sufficiency and arrogance are on his brow." C. H. Spurgeon
This is correct.

1. Spurgeon sought to bring people down, so that they "felt" down, thus looking upwards.
2. He sought to make people realise their business is to submit themselves to God.
3. That they should cry aloud, "Lord save, or I perish."
4. He believed that grace was present when the sinner realised he could "do nothing" by way of merit, to claim salvation.

From the Prince of Preachers (1689 Baptist), who saw a multitude converted to Jesus Christ, God working through their faculties.

98

News Item6/9/15 3:52 PM
peacemaker  Find all comments by peacemaker
From article;
"External experts brought in by Pope Francis to help tackle the tiny city state's ills are answering the papal call for openness"

The Vatican/RCC has been recognised as a false witness and the proverbial wolf in sheeps clothing for centuries. The Reformed Church has fought against this vicious wolf for centuries. From such a corrupt and satanic source nothing good can come. Idolatry and blasphemy are second nature to these servants of the papal antichrist.
Why then should someone call themselves Christian with this ideology???

EG:
"What the Arminian wants to do is to arouse man's activity: what we want to do is to kill it once for all---to show him that he is lost and ruined, and that his activities are not now at all equal to the work of conversion; that he must look upward. They seek to make the man stand up: we seek to bring him down, and make him feel that there he lies in the hand of God, and that his business is to submit himself to God, and cry aloud, 'Lord, save, or we perish.' We hold that man is never so near grace as when he begins to feel he can do nothing at all. When he says, 'I can pray, I can believe, I can do this, and I can do the other,' marks of self-sufficiency and arrogance are on his brow." C. H. Spurgeon

97
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