New Christian Zionists Seek Distance From 'Wild, Crazy Popular Apocalypticism'
While the group does not agree on everything, they are united in the belief that God's covenants with Israel were not displaced by Jesus Christ and the Church. In other words, while Jesus is central to salvation, God will remain faithful to the promises He made to the Jewish people. How, exactly, that works itself out will continue to be a matter of study and debate.
One of the difficulties Christian Zionists have had is that dispensationalism, a theological view held by a large subset of Christian Zionists, has been misrepresented in the media and associated with "the wildest excesses of a popular apocalypticism," Craig Blasing, executive vice president, provost, and professor of theology at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, explained during the Q&A.
While dispensational theology has changed a lot over the last 30 years, dispensationalists are still associated with the older version of...
Penny, I just thought you were getting worried about my ethnic background from my support of Israel. This article I see is directed toward our Reformed brethren (Yes, Dispensationalists think Reformed types are Christians, even though the feeling sometimes isn't mutual) [URL=https://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/tt13.html]]]What do you do with a future National Israel in the Bible?[/URL]
But to explain the Dispensationalist position: [URL=https://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/tt6.html]]]The First Foundation: Consistent Literal Interpretation[/URL] [URL=https://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/tt2.html]]]Premillennialism: The Second Foundation[/URL] [URL=https://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/tt4.html]]]Futurism: The Third Foundation[/URL] and [URL=http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/tt15.html]]] Israel / Church Distinction: The 4th Foundation[/URL]
now Jim, why would it matter to me if you have a Jewish background? Anyone can practice kabbal, no matter their ethnic background and in CHrist will be those of every nation and tongue. Its a matter of belief. that's why I speak up when people turn religion into a "racial" issue, there is no "racial supremacy" in the gospel of Christ.
Penny see the articles on the Star of David! See,[URL=http://www.jpost.com/printarticle.aspx?id=326373]]]Hollywood's Kabbalah guru Philip Berg dies[/URL] and also see, [URL=http://www.jpost.com/printarticle.aspx?id=402875]]]A personal exploration of Kabbalah[/URL], a quotation from which,
Ariel Hendleman wrote: What is kabbalah? Depending on when you ask me, I have a different answer. The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. But I would say kabbalah is like the âwhyâ of everything. In Judaism, thereâs a lot of focus on what youâre supposed to do, how youâre supposed to do it, and at what time. Kabbalah asks, why? I think thatâs what kabbalah really talks about and itâs what got me interested in my Judaism in the first place. I wasnât interested in someone saying to me, âAt 6:18, this is what you have to do, and this is what you canât do on this day.â I grew up as a very Reform Jew in New York City. What was taught to us was, âBe proud to be Jewish, be proud of Israel, but Judaism is about doing what you want, how you want. You decide what it means to be a good person and how you want to be a good person.â ....
Mystycism should be eschewed by the Christian [URL=http://gracebiblegillette.org/Mysticism-Christian.htm]]]Mysticism[/URL]
There seem to have been some discussion on another thread that the cross was a pagan symbol. As I said it looks like it was intertwined on this SA article. Judaism came historically before Christianity. Christianity and Judaism are intertwined, Christianity is the completion of Judaism.
I really can't point it out often enough (can I? ) that no Jew can be saved from the time of Jesus to even now, except as described in, [URL=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+13%3A15-42&version=NASB]]]Acts 13:15-42[/URL] By the way, the same verses describe quite well the special relation that Jews have had with God. After the Church age God will again take up his work with them, and I most definitely mean the Triune God.
So, no, the Star of David, was a Christian symbol as well, I can't help what Kabbalah "Jews" do or had done with the [URL=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_David]]]Star of David[/URL] any more than I can help with what the Catholic "Christian" does or has done with the cross.
Jim, you're dancing around the subject. it has always been a pagan symbol, right there on SA over the cross, and is mentioned in Amos 5 and in Stephen's final words before he was martyred. A Messianic Jew has written a book on this matter. I linked you to a Torah website where they say the symbol did not come from Judaism (ie Torah Judaism).
and there is only one way to be saved, through Jesus Christ, does not the NT warn against endless genealogies? here I thought you believed in salvation by grace through faith? or are we adding to Christ, CHrist and paganism?
the semitic argument has nothing to do with this, its unlikely that any person here doesn't have some natural heritage to Abraham over thousands of years of heritage, this has to do with a viewpoint that god is shekinah female and that Jesus is in h@des.
...as represented by the 666 symbol above positioned over the cross.
Yes, and look at the Wikipedia article on Star of David they mentioned the Kaballah, but like on another thread about removing crosses to appease Muslims, I'll just put a link to it here, [URL=https://www.raptureready.com/resource/hunt/dh15.html]]]The Finality of the Cross[/URL] from which, 'A. W. Tozer wrote: "If I see fright, the cross of popular evangelicalism is not the cross of the New Testament. It is rather a new bright ornament upon the bosom of a self-assured and carnal Christianity....The old cross slew men: the new cross entertains them. The old cross condemned; the new cross amuses. The old cross destroyed confidence in the flesh; the new cross encourages it....The flesh, smiling and confident, preaches and sings about the cross; before that cross it bows and toward that cross it points with carefully staged histrionics-hut upon that cross it will not die. and the reproach of the cross it stubbornly refuses to bear."'
Romans 3:9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10 as it is written: âNone is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.---ESV
Read,[URL=https://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/tt15.html]]]Israel / Church Distinction...[/URL]
Jim, do you know anything about history? Some Jews followed the Torah, and some succumbed to Babylonian religions (especially the 10 northern tribes). that's why they went to exile. that's what the whole OT is about! I gave you a website from torah followers, not the filth of "Jesus is in excrement in h@des" -- that is your religion, no? (ie hexagram, Talmud) - if you read the torah Jew site they find this movement a false one, shall I put up the link again?
If we today as Christians cannot distinguish between truth and paganism, we might as well join the Babylonian RCC, its the same paganism.
why does SA have a hexagram over the cross? have we become so PC?
believing or not believing Revelations, does not negate that it is a pagan 666 symbol, used by magicians throughout time, and combined with rev 2:9, 3:9, besides which, do you understand the transgender/sodomy movement is aligned with kabbal? do you even know what that religion is?
I am convinced this is the issue of our era as a western church. And with your racial slurs it must feel good to shut down discourse about scofields pagan roots, the rothschilds who bring one world gov, and an antichrist that will bring the world together and you will believe them. this is the end time deception.
Penny, the [URL=http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/star.html]]]The Star of David - Magen David[/URL] while not a religious symbol in the beginning has nothing to do with 666, since the Jews don't have any acceptance of the book of Revelation, but of course they will when the events in it happen. but just looking at it's relatively recent history and the long history of [URL=http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/menorah.html]]]The Menorah[/URL] being a Jewish symbol, I'm only slightly surprised that it wasn't used on the Israeli flag instead. The Maccabees used it on their money.
By the way, this particular hexagram shape was used in Christian churches long before the Jews used it, see the wikipedia article on the [URL=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_David]]]The Star of David[/URL]. As far as the number "666" JFB has an interesting commentary on [URL=http://www.blbclassic.org/commentaries/comm_view.cfm?AuthorID=7&contentID=15498&commInfo=6&topic=Revelation]]]Rev. 13:18 -- Fausset[/URL] It's near the bottom of the page.
I'm just pointing out, Penny, the ideas of Replacement theology --may-- lead to Anti-Semitism, q.v., [URL=https://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/HalLindsey.html]]]... Dominion Theology, and Anti-Semitism[/URL]
Now Jim, what good would it be if you were advancing a pagan 666 symbol as holy?
I can show you where the Menorah and the Cross are in the bible.
Can you show me your symbol is in the bible (the one in the photograph above sitting on the cross of Christ, is Christ subservient to anyone?)?
Are you avoiding my point with slurs? we had a friend who knew the scriptures and spoke of Christ as the light represented in the Menorah, was there not one left open for the Messiah the blessed hope to come? He was Hebrew and he had utterly rejected dispensational theology. I'm just making a point about your racial slurs, how can one insert such filth into a discussion that began with "there is no longer Jew nor Greek, but we are one in Christ?"
My, Penny, I was just about head off doing something else, but I saw your comment, and thought it worthy to take notice of! It's interesting that the Magen David isn't an ancient symbol! [URL=http://https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/star.html]]]The Star of David - Magen David[/URL] is the symbol of Israel and Zionism, and you know [URL=http://archive.frontpagemag.com/Printable.aspx?ArtId=33411]]]Christian Zionists: The Real Terrorists[/URL]
The article really does have a lot to do with Israel, and most of us think being anti-Israel is being anti-Semitic. However, to notice the sensitivities of some, a Menorah would have worked as well as the Magen David; and it's a much more ancient symbol. So, anyway, [URL=https://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/tt13.html]]]What do you do with a future National Israel in the Bible?[/URL]. You look at with quite a bit of joy, actually.
Oh, SA hiccups on URLs that have "https" in them, so you can view the URL in my privious message, [URL=https://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/tt15.html]]]Israel / Church Distinction: The 4th Foundation[/URL].
I would say that the cross was intermingled with Star of David, so I didn't get worked up, but much thanks for getting me to look up info on the Magen David.
Penny, for people who are in this present church age, you will find no dispensationalist, (or should find no dispensationalist ) who will say that are more than one way to be saved,e.g.,
Acts 13:36 For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep and was laid with his fathers and saw corruption, 37 but he whom God raised up did not see corruption. 38 Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything 39 from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.--ESV
Thomas Ice wrote: Belief that God's single plan for history includes the two peoples of Israel and the church does not imply that there are thus different ways of salvation. When it comes to the issue of salvation there is only one way, since all peoples down through history descend from a single source-Adam. Christ's saving work is the only way of salvation for anyone, whether they are a member of Israel or the church.
excerpt from, [URL=http://https://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/tt15.html]]]Israel / Church Distinction: The 4th Foundation[/URL].
...or perhaps scrap the whole thing and find out what the new covenant is about.
there is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ. Whatever claims are for one side are for the other as well.
Christ brought the heavenly Kingdom to us through the cross and Resurrection so that we could see the glory of God and remain with Him forever. this is the gospel Kingdom we have been called to preach.
I'd suggest scrapping the commentaries and read the gospels first, then the letters, and then find out what all those moving picture symbols of Revelations mean... they'll find that the tribulation is what believers go through and that the book is a source of encouragement for all of us as we bring the gospel Kingdom message to the world.... then Revelations will be put in its right place as encouragement to the soldiers of the Prince of Peace not a futurist blueprint for worldly attacks and defeats. (have our teachers not brought us enough defeat and bloodshed and loss of natl sov toknow they are being deceived?)
FIVer, these sermons I don't think were mentioned by me when this thread was started, so I'll put them up for your perusal.
In the following two sermons Dr. Rugh used a book by a Reformed theologian to compare Dispensational and Covenantal hermeneutics [URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=22815958409]]]The Covenants of Scripture, part 1[/URL] and [URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=228151032188]]]The Covenants of Scripture, part 2[/URL] The following two PDF files especially the chart will be quite helpful in following the above sermons, Dispensationalists: [URL=http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-%28Part1%29CovenantsandD.pdf]]]Covenants and Dispensations Part I by Thomas Ice (PDF)[/URL] (Short) and [URL=http://www.fbcaa.org/BibleStudies/collegesundayschool/Miscellaneous/DispensationChart.pdf]]]Summary of Dispensations and Covenants (PDF)[/URL] (This is quite good).
John of UK, The Song of Solomon should be taken literally.
No, you can stick to Scriptures that are cut and paste, but that can't be done, You can see all the Scriptures that Dr. Ice, can throw out as well, in [URL=http://https://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/Preterism.html]]]Has Bible Prophecy Already Been Fulfilled?[/URL] Not by a long-shot, but perhaps you should read this first, [URL=http://www.raptureme.com/rr-preterism.html]]]Preterism! I Can't Believe It![/URL].
FiVer wrote: Oh Jim JIM Jim!!! When are you going to get yourself a real Bible and return to all five parts of the truth....
Just to give you a littler variety, [URL=http://withchrist.org/covtheo.htm]]]The Subtle Errors of Covenant/Calvinist Theology[/URL] Dan Smedra and [URL=http://4himnet.com/bnyberg/dispensationalism02.html]]]Contrasting Dispensationalism & Covenant Theology[/URL]
However, what I wanted to cover is your comment, "...the right Bible" Dispensationalists, perhaps the majority of them, use the wrong Bible, but come to the right conclusions in spite of using the KJV So, I'll point out something that can be of great help to everyone, you can get the [URL=http://www.christianbook.com/amplified-kjv-nasb-niv-comparative-hardcover/9780310903338/pd/90333]]]Amplified, KJV, NASB, & NIV Comparative Study Bible, Hardcover $29.99[/URL] here and probably here, [URL=https://www.soundwords.org/]]]Sound Words Bookstore[/URL]. Call them and see if they can't get a better price on it.
I just pick up the previous edition from them. It has all 4 versions paralleled, so you can have the KVJ and then the more accurate, readable Bibles to explain what the KJV means.