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Breaking News All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  8/11/2020
THURSDAY, AUG 23, 2012  |  133 comments
How Christian Colleges Become Bastions of Unbelief

What happened to so many once-Christian colleges in the United States? Two fine books describe the decline. George Marsden's 462-page The Soul of the American University shows how once-Protestant universities became secular look-alikes. James Burtchaell's The Dying of the Light: The Disengagement of Colleges and Universities from Their Christian Churches uses 868 pages to show not only how schools moved from liberal theism to secularism but how, before that, they moved from theologically conservative to liberal stances.

I'll try to give the high points of 1,330 pages in fewer than 1,330 words: Three central messages are (1) Follow the money, (2) Watch the college president, (3) See what the college does with Darwin. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 133 user comment(s)
News Item9/5/12 8:55 AM
KJV English speaking-Onlyist  Find all comments by KJV English speaking-Onlyist
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/bibliola.htm
This has some good answers to the KJV "wrongs". Even the "lost books".
And question how do you post links rightly here?
133

News Item9/1/12 10:18 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Unity in Doctrine and Worship

"The SMV has been a powerful force for liturgical and doctrinal unity in both Scotland and Ireland where it alone was the Church's songbook for over two centuries. It is surely no accident that when the Churches began to produce their own revisions we have seen "individualism" win the day with the Presbyterian Churches each having their own Psalter, and worse still in some cases their own collections of uninspired songs."

Revisionism, whether of the Bible itself or God's hymns of worship, will inevitably lead eventually to unbelief or liberalism, probably both.

132

News Item8/30/12 5:08 PM
KJV English speaking-Onlyist  Find all comments by KJV English speaking-Onlyist
Dsa said
This should help establish the idea that we don't really have the Word of God today.

That what Jim, White, Satan, Jones Jr, 3, ect. want us simple folk to think.
There one thing almost all (")Christian(") professors and the Federal government can agreed on is that they fear us simple folk.

And Jim stop it with the ****** please that is annoying.
How can you tell them that they are using it vainly when you can not prove with your B(b)ible.
If you hear anyone say the words vainly just answer them with something liked(and be dumb too) "His(Her) parents were not married", "He has two legs not four" etc.

131

News Item8/30/12 3:50 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
I do indeed, but there are other "things" to fret over.
Ah well, we're used to "things" over here because of Test Match Special, whose favourite commentator Henry Blofeld was always saying, "My dear old thing."
130

News Item8/30/12 3:32 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
True enough Mike.
But at least we are agreed that the Bible colleges became "bastions of unbelief" at round about the same time that they chose to reject the KJV in favour of the NIV, NASB, NKJV etc.
Unless you have a different answer up your sleeve?
I do indeed, but there are other "things" to fret over.
129

News Item8/30/12 3:25 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
"Child" in ref to the unborn Jesus is not a paraphrase for thing, while the reverse surely could be. But I guess we'e not about to agree on this one. It's not a doctrinal issue anyway.(luckily for the thing folk ) Nevertheless, I respect your thoughtful posts, John. I shall have to be satisfied knowing that what is true cannot be changed by words to the contrary, wherever the words are written.
True enough Mike.

But at least we are agreed that the Bible colleges became "bastions of unbelief" at round about the same time that they chose to reject the KJV in favour of the NIV, NASB, NKJV etc.

Unless you have a different answer up your sleeve?

128

News Item8/30/12 3:17 PM
Dsa  Find all comments by Dsa
Mike wrote:
I shall have to be satisfied knowing that what is true cannot be changed by words to the contrary, wherever the words are written.
Oh I don't know!
Isn't that what the modern versions are doing all the time.

There are literally dozens of english translation versions of the Bible, increasing all the time and none of them agree with each other in word translation.

This should help establish the idea that we don't really have the Word of God today.

Yet curious to think that the Dead sea Scrolls is practically word perfect in comparison to the Masoretic.

127

News Item8/30/12 3:01 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Because of changing of meanings of Words this is why most people don't use a **** *** version q.v., [URL=http://classic.net.bible.org/verse.php?book=2Pe&chapter=2&verse=16]]]II Peter 2:16[/URL] such as the King James. The KJV translators use some dynamic equivalence in their translation, I would suggest you read the [URL=http://www.bible-researcher.com/asvpreface.html]]]Prefaces of the ASV[/URL]--especially the one for the Old Testament--to get an idea what translators have done and for the same reasons still do in the most part.

[URL=http://jcsm.org/StudyCenter/john_macarthur/KJV.htm]]]The Biblical Position on The KJV Controversy[/URL] The book that is mentioned in this commentary can be found at, [URL=https://soundwords.org/books/contemporary-issues/king-james-version-debate]]]King James Version Debate By D. A. Carson[/URL].

126

News Item8/30/12 2:57 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
Mike my dear ol' bro. What you are doing is showing how professional the translators of the KJV were. Not having any desire for a paraphrase version, they translated the greek "just as it was". Even the NASB admits that in their footnote for Luke 1:35 - or "holy thing".
It is not ours to reason why. I am happy to accept that the translators of the KJV knew what they were doing. And I have to accept that the translators of the NASB fell into the temptation of making the Bible say something it never did.
"Child" in ref to the unborn Jesus is not a paraphrase for thing, while the reverse surely could be. But I guess we'e not about to agree on this one. It's not a doctrinal issue anyway.(luckily for the thing folk ) Nevertheless, I respect your thoughtful posts, John. I shall have to be satisfied knowing that what is true cannot be changed by words to the contrary, wherever the words are written.
125

News Item8/30/12 2:50 PM
kolly  Find all comments by kolly
Mike wrote:
Matthew 1:18 "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost."

"With child," before his birth. Not with thing. Not "thing" before birth, nor after.

This is a completely different Greek word, viz:
"G1064
γαστήρ
gastēr
Of uncertain derivation; the stomach; by analogy the matrix; figuratively a gourmand: - belly, + with child, womb."

Why not have the translators just stick to the Greek - stick to what it actually says??

124

News Item8/30/12 1:12 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
Granted, human reason has its place, bro. However...
Matthew 1:18 "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost."
Luke 2:5
"To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child."
Matthew 1:23
"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."
God deliberately calls him child. "With child," before his birth. Not with thing. Not "thing" before birth, nor after.
Mike my dear ol' bro. What you are doing is showing how professional the translators of the KJV were. Not having any desire for a paraphrase version, they translated the greek "just as it was". Even the NASB admits that in their footnote for Luke 1:35 - or "holy thing".

It is not ours to reason why. I am happy to accept that the translators of the KJV knew what they were doing. And I have to accept that the translators of the NASB fell into the temptation of making the Bible say something it never did.

123

News Item8/30/12 1:00 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
Ah but Mike, we are not calling anything.
A few alternatives for you:
1. That God has preserved the NT text and deliberately avoided the word for "child", thus calling his Son soon to be born "that holy thing". Before the days of scans etc. it was the norm for people to say, "I wonder whether IT will be a boy or a girl."
2. That God has not preserved the greek text intact, and the greek for "child" has been corrupted.
3. That the Bible is not true at all.
It is the first one.
Granted, human reason has its place, bro. However...

Matthew 1:18 "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost."

Luke 2:5
"To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child."

Matthew 1:23
"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

God deliberately calls him child. "With child," before his birth. Not with thing. Not "thing" before birth, nor after.

122

News Item8/30/12 12:15 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mike wrote:
John, I'm going to have to take this to task. If the greek refers to (if it in fact does)that which "shall be born of thee" as thing(an object, not a person) it means thing, because the greek says so? That is a most strange approach, and bends what is into what isn't. Especially when the same KJV refers to this "thing" rightly as a child several times in the next chapter. Could it be that the child is a child, in spite of translation otherwise? Yet there will be argument that it is the "modern" versions cause confusion. There is one "thing" we know-Jesus is not a thing, nor ever has been. We can hardly get riled up when the JWs call the Holy Spirit a thing, if we're willing to call the Son of God the same.
Ah but Mike, we are not calling anything.

A few alternatives for you:

1. That God has preserved the NT text and deliberately avoided the word for "child", thus calling his Son soon to be born "that holy thing". Before the days of scans etc. it was the norm for people to say, "I wonder whether IT will be a boy or a girl."

2. That God has not preserved the greek text intact, and the greek for "child" has been corrupted.

3. That the Bible is not true at all.

It is the first one.

121

News Item8/30/12 12:08 PM
kolly  Find all comments by kolly
John UK wrote:
Luke 1:35 KJV
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
No mention of "child" anywhere in the greek, so how RSV and NASB can put that word in illustrates sloppy translation work.
John. This is the Greek word at that point

"G1080
γεννάω
gennaō
From a variation of G1085; to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: - bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring"

The NASB has turned this into "child" which is wrong. I guess the NASB translators didn't like God's version and have decided to "improve" on God's Bible.

This must be what Jim Lincoln means when he talks about preferring someone elses interpretation - instead of the Word of God.
--------------

Mike
In the UK it is not unusual for us to say of someone, "Aw you poor thing" perhaps in pity etc. 'Thing' then can be used where specific identification is not essential to the statement. Just as I have corrected Jim before in the correct use of

120

News Item8/30/12 11:54 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
Luke 1:35 KJV
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
No mention of "child" anywhere in the greek, so how RSV and NASB can put that word in illustrates sloppy translation work.
John, I'm going to have to take this to task. If the greek refers to (if it in fact does)that which "shall be born of thee" as thing(an object, not a person) it means thing, because the greek says so? That is a most strange approach, and bends what is into what isn't. Especially when the same KJV refers to this "thing" rightly as a child several times in the next chapter. Could it be that the child is a child, in spite of translation otherwise? Yet there will be argument that it is the "modern" versions cause confusion. There is one "thing" we know-Jesus is not a thing, nor ever has been. We can hardly get riled up when the JWs call the Holy Spirit a thing, if we're willing to call the Son of God the same.
119

News Item8/30/12 11:27 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Luke 1:35 KJV
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

No mention of "child" anywhere in the greek, so how RSV and NASB can put that word in illustrates sloppy translation work.

118

News Item8/29/12 10:23 PM
Alexander The Least  Find all comments by Alexander The Least
[Removed by Moderator Alpha]
117

News Item8/29/12 6:25 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Observe:

Romans 8:15-16 Geneva Bible
15 For ye haue not receiued the Spirit of bodage, to feare againe: but ye haue receiued the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry Abba, Father.
16 The same Spirit beareth witnesse with our spirit, that we are the children of God.

Notice: "The same Spirit" = The "Spirit of adoption".

Romans 8:15-16 KJV
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Notice: "The Spirit itself" = The "Spirit of adoption".

Now the translators of the KJV were the most knowing and understanding people I have ever come across, when it comes to correct translating work. Such intricacy and devotion to detail.

In all but four cases, the Spirit is referred to as he, him, himself by these translators. But here in Romans 8:16 we have "itself". And some ignorant folks say, "What a blunder!"

Do you REALLY believe that the entire translating team, going over and over the most majestic translation in history, made a BLUNDER! RIDICULOUS!

V 16 has to be translated in reference to the previous verse. Think about it, and the Lord will show you.

G'night..

116

News Item8/29/12 3:11 PM
KJV English speaking-Onlyist  Find all comments by KJV English speaking-Onlyist
Thank you for answering my question Jim.

Now, Jim if you very want some "blaspheme" explain please, Luke 1:35 when it calls Jesus a holy thing?

115

News Item8/29/12 3:08 PM
Data  Find all comments by Data
Jim Lincoln wrote:
the AV is a modern translation!
But as we keep explaining Jim the problem is ...
"The New Greek Text, from which modern versions (Revised Version, New International Version, New American Standard Version) are derived, is a corrupted Greek text.

The reader will find in these pages historical information concerning the translation of the KJV and modern versions, evidence which discredits the translators of the New Greek Text and the Revised Version of 1881 (ERV or RV), and Tables which compare selected Scriptures in the KJV, ERV (RV), NASB, NIV, and NKJV. The negative impact of numerous changes in modern translations upon Christian doctrine and also upon the Church will become apparent. This treatise will deal primarily with alterations to the New Testament" [URL=http://watch.pair.com/another.html]]]Another Bible - Another Gospel[/URL]

114
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