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Breaking News All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  11/29/2020
SUNDAY, JUL 24, 2011  |  53 comments
Norway Bombing, Shooting: Anders Behring Breivik Reveals Hatred of Modern Church in Blogs
Breivik’s blogs reveal a lot about his thoughts and views:

1) On the ‚ÄúChurch‚ÄĚ he blogged:

"Today's Protestant church is a joke. Priests in jeans who march for Palestine and churches that look like minimalist shopping centres. I am a supporter of an indirect collective conversion of the Protestant church back to the Catholic."


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.christianpost.com

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 53 user comment(s)
News Item8/4/11 10:49 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Pilchard wrote:
1) Ref Matt 7:21-23 The "Lord, Lord" verses; - Which type from your conclusion did these folks display?
These verses suggest a "faith" which did not work - or it was NOT "faith."

2) But on this conclusion - Are we defining "Faith" as we know it to be the means of salvation. Viz...
"1Peter 1:5

3) This also leads to the question, "WHO CAN "receive" the Word of God?" Is it a human ability or.....

Great questions.

1) "Depart from me, ye workers of iniquity. I NEVER knew you."

Billions will hear those dreadful words ringing in their ears for eternity. It is a sobering reality which should make our hearts pain for the multitudes who are deceived by righteous sounding religious machinery.

The Lord answered your question... "workers of iniquity" or iow, workers of self-righteousness. They never knew the righteousness of Christ but trusted in their own righteousness.

2) There is one faith (Eph 4:5) so anything that resembles it but does not justify is not faith.

3) Paul said his conversion was a pattern for all who would believe unto eternal life after him (1 Tim 1:16). So, I'd answer.... whosoever God calls.

. . .

Btw, have another look at Romans 8:30... "them **he** also justified". Goes well with Heb 12:2.

53

News Item8/4/11 6:25 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Hmmm wrote:
I doubt that anyone would dispute these points Jim, but the real point in the centuries old debate on faith is, - "Is faith a work of the sinner?"
James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? ..... 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."
Even James separates faith from works.
But does the Arminian (and the RCC) manage to separate them, especially in their ultimate result.
Ahem, Hmmm.

Have you checked out the old testament types, which have their antitype in a sinner putting his trust in Jesus Christ for his sacrifice of atonement?

I am certain you will find that the old testament Jews were not passive in their reponse to God's provision. Indeed, when Moses lifted up the brazen serpent in the wilderness, only those who did the simplistic thing and looked up at it when bitten were cured. Others who would not reduce themselves to a childlike trust in God's word of command (in his mercy and grace) certainly died when bitten by the snakes.

It may not be classed as a "work", but it still has to be done, or the sinner will never be saved. Whoever heard of sinners sitting back in a chair doing nothing, and getting saved?

52

News Item8/4/11 3:09 PM
Hmmm  Find all comments by Hmmm
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Works?
Easton Dictionary wrote:
...Works are "good" only when, (1) they spring from the principle of love to God. The moral character of an act is determined by the moral principle that prompts it. Faith and love in the heart are the essential elements of all true obedience.......

from Works, Good from the above said dictionary.

I doubt that anyone would dispute these points Jim, but the real point in the centuries old debate on faith is, - "Is faith a work of the sinner?"

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? ..... 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

Even James separates faith from works.

But does the Arminian (and the RCC) manage to separate them, especially in their ultimate result.

51

News Item8/4/11 2:43 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Works?
Easton Dictionary wrote:
...Works are "good" only when, (1) they spring from the principle of love to God. The moral character of an act is determined by the moral principle that prompts it. Faith and love in the heart are the essential elements of all true obedience. Hence good works only spring from a believing heart, can only be wrought by one reconciled to God (Eph. 2:10; James 2:18:22). (2.) Good works have the glory of God as their object; and (3) they have the revealed will of God as their only rule (Deut. 12:32; Rev. 22:18, 19). Good works are an expression of gratitude in the believer's heart (John 14:15, 23; Gal. 5:6). They are the fruits of the Spirit (Titus 2:10-12), and thus spring from grace, which they illustrate and strengthen in the heart. Good works of the most sincere believers are all imperfect, yet like their persons they are accepted through the mediation of Jesus Christ (Col. 3:17),...
from Works, Good from the above said dictionary.

To add to that, [URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=219101035481]]]Justification is By Faith Alone[/URL]

Oh, back to the article, I see why the Pope so quickly offered sympathy to Norway, He wanted to disassociate the Romish Church from Breivik and I can't blame him f

50

News Item8/4/11 2:18 PM
Pilchard  Find all comments by Pilchard
Lurker wrote:
1) That said, we still come to the divide between two camps; those who profess faith is a gift and those who profess that all mankind has the ability to believe unto righteousness.

2) All mankind has convictions and the inate ability to trust (many trust in their own works to please God)

3) That conviction can only come by the word of God

Lurker
1) Ref Matt 7:21-23 The "Lord, Lord" verses; - Which type from your conclusion did these folks display?
These verses suggest a "faith" which did not work - or it was NOT "faith."

2) But on this conclusion - Are we defining "Faith" as we know it to be the means of salvation. Viz...
"1Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
9. Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls"

3) This also leads to the question, "WHO CAN "receive" the Word of God?" Is it a human ability or.....
______________

Mike wrote:
But if you didn't say what you said, accept my apologies
Mike
I said quote "That would be salvation by works. " You forgot to interpret the "smiley."

You must provide the theological attribute of the smiley in these complex discussions.

49

News Item8/4/11 8:50 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Good morning Mike,

After reading your comment I did some research in theological dictionaries and found that trust can be a noun as well as a verb.

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen" (Heb. 11:1). Faith should be understood as synonymous with trust in something. Within Christianity, It is a divine gift (Rom. 12:3) and comes by hearing the Word of God (Rom. 10:17). It is the means by which the grace of God is accounted to the believer who trusts in the work of Jesus on the cross (Eph. 2:8). Without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb. 11:6). It is by faith that Christians live their lives, "The righteous shall live by faith," (Hab. 2:4; Rom. 1:17)." CARM.org

That said, we still come to the divide between two camps; those who profess faith is a gift and those who profess that all mankind has the ability to believe unto righteousness.

All mankind has convictions and the inate ability to trust (many trust in their own works to please God) but that is not what the bible speaks of regarding faith which justifies.... that is; a conviction that God is faithful to perform the promises He has made and that He alone is worthy to be trusted with one's eternal destiny. That conviction can only come by hearing the word of God.

48

News Item8/3/11 8:17 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Pilchard wrote:
Mike
I should have known you would jump in with the Arminian style solutions.
a) True. But the point of discussion was grammar, Noun - Verb, not theological definition.
b) "Spiritual" is the theme behind the statement, - NOT a physical faith covered in actual blood.
c) "The just...." - Again at this point it was the grammatical discussion I sought to address. So I am a little surprised you jumped into "salvation." The reason I brought it up was a play on the "verb" consruction.
However your point, quote; "living by faith is DOING THE WORKS" - Is that ALL that faith is? - Just a human task within fallen human fallible ability?? (Arminian)??
Don't forget Eph 2:9.
Sorry Pilchard, my error. You said:

"As in Rom 1:17 "the just shall live by faith(pistis)[same word] - not - "the just shall live by "doing something""= That would be salvation by works"

I somehow concluded that you were saying if the just(believers) (as in Rom 1:17) living by faith actually did works, it would be salvation by works. So I said to myself

But if you didn't say what you said, accept my apologies.

Words have the darndest habit of meaning things.

47

News Item8/3/11 10:47 AM
Pilchard  Find all comments by Pilchard
Mike wrote:
a) Faith in His blood simply means faith in the proptiation provided by the shedding of His blood.

b) The blood was physical, not "a spiritual entity." Spiritual beings have no need of blood, their life is not in it.
c) The just shall live by faith- Paul is talking to believers. The just are already saved. Living by faith is doing the works God has prepared believers to do, per Eph 2:10 and is not therefore salvation by works, nor can it be construed to be.

Mike
I should have known you would jump in with the Arminian style solutions.

a) True. But the point of discussion was grammar, Noun - Verb, not theological definition.

b) "Spiritual" is the theme behind the statement, - NOT a physical faith covered in actual blood.

c) "The just...." - Again at this point it was the grammatical discussion I sought to address. So I am a little surprised you jumped into "salvation." The reason I brought it up was a play on the "verb" consruction.
However your point, quote; "living by faith is DOING THE WORKS" - Is that ALL that faith is? - Just a human task within fallen human fallible ability?? (Arminian)??

Don't forget Eph 2:9.

46

News Item8/2/11 7:54 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Pilchard wrote:
---
Therefore the statement is - "Faith(noun) in His blood" - Thus it is not - "faith(doing something) in His blood."
Faith being spiritual and the blood in this verse applied as a spiritual entity - there would be no conflict in defining them both as nouns. Our faith then is not a 'doing' - but a state of Christian being. As in Rom 1:17 "the just shall live by faith(pistis)[same word] - not - "the just shall live by "doing something"" = That would be salvation by works.
Faith in His blood simply means faith in the proptiation provided by the shedding of His blood. The blood was physical, not "a spiritual entity." Spiritual beings have no need of blood, their life is not in it.

The just shall live by faith- Paul is talking to believers. The just are already saved. Living by faith is doing the works God has prepared believers to do, per Eph 2:10 and is not therefore salvation by works, nor can it be construed to be.

45

News Item8/2/11 12:05 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Pilchard wrote:
The Greek at this point "pistis" or more specifically "pistews" is a Greek NOUN!

Therefore the statement is - "Faith(noun) in His blood" - Thus it is not - "faith(doing something) in His blood."

Faith being spiritual and the blood in this verse applied as a spiritual entity - there would be no conflict in defining them both as nouns. Our faith then is not a 'doing' - but a state of Christian being. As in Rom 1:17 "the just shall live by faith(pistis)[same word] - not - "the just shall live by "doing something"" = That would be salvation by works.

Pilchard,

Sorry for the delay in reply.... too busy of late.

Good observations with which I agree.

I would like to continue this worthy discussion but at the present time I just don't have the time to do it justice. If you have additional thoughts regarding faith I would be interested in hearing them. If not, thank you kindly for the thoughtful interaction.

God bless.

44

News Item7/31/11 3:40 PM
Pilchard  Find all comments by Pilchard
Lurker wrote:
Does "FAITH IN HIS BLOOD..." literally mean faith resident in His blood or, as most commonly interpreted, believer's confidence/trust placed in His blood which would make faith a verb?
Lurker
Thats a good one you have found.
How about these speculations on it?

The Greek at this point "pistis" or more specifically "pistews" is a Greek NOUN!

Therefore the statement is - "Faith(noun) in His blood" - Thus it is not - "faith(doing something) in His blood."

Faith being spiritual and the blood in this verse applied as a spiritual entity - there would be no conflict in defining them both as nouns. Our faith then is not a 'doing' - but a state of Christian being. As in Rom 1:17 "the just shall live by faith(pistis)[same word] - not - "the just shall live by "doing something"" = That would be salvation by works.

43

News Item7/31/11 2:06 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
pilchard wrote:
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have ACCESS by faith INTO THIS GRACE wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so.....
9 Much more then.... blood...
If we disconect the Crucified Christ (blood) from faith then we are left with an empty cross devoid of its power. (1Cor.1:18)
Faith then becomes questionable as to its relevance. We would have to do works/obedience/deeds of the law (Rom 3:28). Back to the OT?
But no flesh is justified by the law, Rom 3:20.
Rom 5:10 (A) Reconciled by His "death" - (B) "Saved" by His life.
Rom 3:25 God set forth Christ to be a propitiation through FAITH IN HIS BLOOD... Thus faith - without deeds justifies.(28).
Thank you for that.

There is definately a "connect" between faith and the blood of Christ because according to Paul we are justified and reconciled to God by both. Hence, both are righteousness and must be sourced in God.

Does "FAITH IN HIS BLOOD..." literally mean faith resident in His blood or, as most commonly interpreted, believer's confidence/trust placed in His blood which would make faith a verb?

I believe the former is true but seeking meaningful interaction.

42

News Item7/31/11 12:00 AM
unworthy servant | Atlanta  Find all comments by unworthy servant
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

James 1:16-18 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Saving faith is a gift from God, if our works could somehow commend to God's grace, then the Lord Jesus died in vain. It is man's arrogance and ignorance to think they can accomplish something that can only be done by God. Salvation is of the Lord.

41

News Item7/29/11 10:56 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Street-Preacher wrote:
*Luther Should've Known That TRUE BIBLICAL SAVING "FAITH" PRODUCES TRUE BIBLICAL GOOD-"WORKS" & THAT JAMES IS INDEED HOLY WRIT FROM GOD !
Wrong.

God produces good works for He alone is good.

Isa 26:12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.

Wanna take another shot at peddling the pre-trib rapture myth while you're on a roll?

40

News Item7/29/11 8:26 PM
Street-Preacher  Find all comments by Street-Preacher
*Luther Should've Known That TRUE BIBLICAL SAVING "FAITH" PRODUCES TRUE BIBLICAL GOOD-"WORKS" & THAT JAMES IS INDEED HOLY WRIT FROM GOD !

The Norwegian Terrorist Was A FREEMASON FANATIC & NEVER Attended A TRUE Historic Protestant Church Like IAN PAISLEY'S Of Northern Ireland !

In Another Thread I Wrote The Following, Attempting To Explain That ALMIGHTY GOD'S BIBLICAL BASED ETERNAL SPIRITUAL SALVATION Is Not Based On Any "Works", "Faith" &-Or Even The "Will" Of HIS "Foreordained", "Foreknowledged", "Foreknown", "Forecalled",
"Predestinated", "Elect" & "Chosen" Saints:

"THE+HISTORIC+AUTHORIZED+ENGLISH+KING-JAMES+HOLY+BIBLE Says:

'And HE (JESUS CHRIST) Said, Therefore Said I Unto You, That NO MAN Can Come Unto ME, EXCEPT IT WERE GIVEN UNTO HIM OF MY FATHER.' John 6:65

'FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES: IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD:

NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.' EPHESIANS 2:8-9

I DARE Say EVEN The 'FAITH' Of Ephesians 2:8-9 Is ALSO GIVEN To GOD'S ELECT-CHOSEN-PREDESTINATED SAINTS, To Effectually WORK GOD-THE-HOLY-SPIRIT'S WORK OF ETERNAL SALVATION: SO AS TO TOTALLY RENDER THE FOREORDAINED ELECT-CHOSEN-PREDESTINATED SAINT INCAPABLE OF EVER EVEN DESIRING TO 'BOAST' OF HIS OWN SO-CALLED SPIRITUAL &-OR PSYCHOLOGICAL FAITH." !

39

News Item7/29/11 9:03 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
pilchard wrote:
On first read I couldn't see why you asked the question. However does the intro to chapter 5 provide you with an explanation?
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have ACCESS by faith INTO THIS GRACE wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so.....
9 Much more then.... blood...
If we disconect the Crucified Christ (blood) from faith then we are left with an empty cross devoid of its power. (1Cor.1:18)
Faith then becomes questionable as to its relevance. We would have to do works/obedience/deeds of the law (Rom 3:28). Back to the OT?
But no flesh is justified by the law, Rom 3:20.
Rom 5:10 (A) Reconciled by His "death" - (B) "Saved" by His life.
Rom 3:25 God set forth Christ to be a propitiation through FAITH IN HIS BLOOD... Thus faith - without deeds justifies.(28).
Thanks for your reply. Perhaps tonight I'll have time to respond if you're interested in pursuing this further.
38

News Item7/28/11 3:23 PM
pilchard  Find all comments by pilchard
Lurker wrote:
Now... a question for you (or anyone):
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is **justified by faith** without the deeds of the law.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now **justified by his blood**, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
If both be true, how do you reconcile these two verses?
On first read I couldn't see why you asked the question. However does the intro to chapter 5 provide you with an explanation?
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have ACCESS by faith INTO THIS GRACE wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so.....
9 Much more then.... blood...

If we disconect the Crucified Christ (blood) from faith then we are left with an empty cross devoid of its power. (1Cor.1:18)

Faith then becomes questionable as to its relevance. We would have to do works/obedience/deeds of the law (Rom 3:28). Back to the OT?
But no flesh is justified by the law, Rom 3:20.

Rom 5:10 (A) Reconciled by His "death" - (B) "Saved" by His life.

Rom 3:25 God set forth Christ to be a propitiation through FAITH IN HIS BLOOD... Thus faith - without deeds justifies.(28).

37

News Item7/28/11 1:35 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
pilchard wrote:
Lurker
Question. Can you trust in God without faith?
Question. If you have faith do you trust in God?
Question. Does faith enable you to trust in God?
Question. Can you have faith without trust?
1) No.
2) Yes.
3) Yes.
4) No.

Now... a question for you (or anyone):

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is **justified by faith** without the deeds of the law.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now **justified by his blood**, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

If both be true, how do you reconcile these two verses?

36

News Item7/28/11 11:43 AM
pilchard  Find all comments by pilchard
Lurker wrote:
For what it's worth....
Faith and trust are not synonymous.
Trust is a verb.
Faith is a feminine noun (something tangible)
Lurker
Question. Can you trust in God without faith?
Question. If you have faith do you trust in God?
Question. Does faith enable you to trust in God?
Question. Can you have faith without trust?
35

News Item7/28/11 12:19 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
For what it's worth....

Faith and trust are not synonymous.

Trust is a verb.

Faith is a feminine noun (something tangible).

Now if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word (of eternal life; John 6:68) of God and it purifies the vilest heart, it seems rather certain that faith is not inate to mankind but rather comes from God through the gospel.

Is faith "the" gift of Eph 2:8-9 to the exclusion of grace (which is clearly called out as a gift) and salvation? No.

1 Cr 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ [from another]? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive [it], why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received [it]?

Born by the will of God Christians differ from heathens because God willed it to be so.

If one has been led from darkness to light, it's because salvation, grace, faith, mercy, loving kindness etc. are all gifts freely given by God to those He has foreknown and flow from the word (of eternal life aka the gospel) of God to His glory.

One who receives the faith once delivered to the saints is enabled thereby to trust Christ and love Him above all others instead of trusting in their own works of righteousness and contributions to their salvation which is rebellion against God.

For what it's worth....

34
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