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Breaking News All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  8/8/2020
SATURDAY, JAN 23, 2010  |  30 comments
When Ian and Martin prayed
Ian Paisley has spoken for the first time about praying in private with Martin McGuinness while they served together as joint heads of the Northern Ireland Executive. Dr Paisley made his comments in a public interview with me earlier this week at Queen's University. The interview is now available online. He said:

'[Martin McGuinness] took some risks. For a Sinn Fein leader to call other Republicans traitors when there was the shooting of the two Army men, I mean that was a very tough thing to say... We got on well together because we had a good foundation, and as long as we kept to that foundation all was well... There were some individual matters that he had, home matters of people being ill and his mother being ill, and we prayed together. Well, I did the praying and he did the listening, but he wanted me to do it... I offered prayer for him, and I think that was the right thing to do, and I ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.bbc.co.uk

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 30 user comment(s)
News Item2/1/10 8:12 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Bristle wrote:
"He (Paul) calls them the higher powers, not the supreme, who possess the chief authority, but such as excel other men. Magistrates are then thus called with regard to their subjects, and not as compared with each other. And it seems indeed to me, that the Apostle intended by this word to take away the frivolous curiosity of men, who are wont often to inquire by what right they who rule have obtained their authority; but it ought to be enough for us, that they do rule; for they have not ascended by their own power into this high station, but have been placed there by the Lord's hand. And by mentioning every soul, he removes every exception, lest any one should claim an immunity from the common duty of obedience."
(J. Calvin. On Romans 13:1)
Of course Calvin would say this. He had authority, didn't he? Power lusts for its keeping, and if misusing the Bible to justify self works, oh, well.

"excel other men." Rubbish.

"with regard to their subjects." Subjects? More rubbish.

"for they have not ascended by their own power into this high station, but have been placed there by the Lord's hand.."

Sure. And when someone comes along, murders them, and takes over their "high station," The Lord placed them there, too.

30

News Item2/1/10 5:34 PM
The Truth Is  Find all comments by The Truth Is
Some CHRISTIANS & GOSPEL MINISTERS who elevated terrorists into government vainly try to justify their actions by citing Romans 13. Mr. PAISLEY's own exposition of this passage as cited below agrees with that of Ivan Foster, retired FPC Gospel Minister.

As Mr. Foster has pointed out in his article 'God's Glorious Alternative to Power-Sharing with Murderers', Mr. Paisley could have “OPTED OUT” of the deal.
James 4:17 “Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”

Ivan has well-spoken in his article:
The providence of God again reveals the evil at the heart of the political
regime in Ulster
http://www.ivanfoster.net/pdf/Dec0901.pdf

Excerpt:
When this alliance was first mooted, I used the words of Jehu the prophet to Jehoshaphatwhen Jehu rebuked the king for his political alliance with Ahab to condemn such an action.
I was bitterly criticised for drawing a comparison between the two events. I quote those words again and challenge any to deny now the legitimacy of drawing such a parallel.
“And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD,” 2 Chron.19:2

29

News Item2/1/10 5:01 PM
Bristle  Find all comments by Bristle
June wrote:
understood ROMANS 13
"There are indeed always some tumultuous spirits who believe that the kingdom of Christ cannot be sufficiently elevated, unless all earthly powers be abolished, and that they cannot enjoy the liberty given by him, except they shake off every yoke of human subjection.

Hence it seemed unreasonable to acknowledge them for legitimate princes and rulers, who were attempting to take away the kingdom from Christ, the only Lord of heaven and earth.

He (Paul) calls them the higher powers, not the supreme, who possess the chief authority, but such as excel other men. Magistrates are then thus called with regard to their subjects, and not as compared with each other. And it seems indeed to me, that the Apostle intended by this word to take away the frivolous curiosity of men, who are wont often to inquire by what right they who rule have obtained their authority; but it ought to be enough for us, that they do rule; for they have not ascended by their own power into this high station, but have been placed there by the Lord's hand. And by mentioning every soul, he removes every exception, lest any one should claim an immunity from the common duty of obedience."
(J. Calvin. On Romans 13:1)

28

News Item2/1/10 4:03 PM
June  Find all comments by June
I repeat . .
Retired FPC Gospel Minister Ivan Foster explains how IAN PAISLEY / FPC once understood ROMANS 13
Power-sharing with murderers — right or wrong?
Link: http://www.ivanfoster.net/pdf/July0701.pdf

“On May 20th, 1998, the General Presbytery of the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster was associated with an advert in the local press, calling on all to say NO" in the referendum on the Good Friday Agreement. It was signed by most if not all of the then ministers of the Free Presbyterian church.

. . part of that 1998 advert reads: “We the undersigned, having professed faith in Christ as our Lord and Saviour and bound in conscience by the infallibility of the Word of God, declare the truth that governments have divinely been given the power of the sword for the punishment of evil doers, and the power of protection for the praise of them that do well. The Agreement flies in the face of Holy Scripture and punishes those that do well and praises those that are evil doers. We protest against this outrage.” Romans 13:3-4.”

Dr. Ian Paisley was the prime mover in getting the Free Presbyterian Church to agree to the 1988 Solemn Covenant and the placing of the Presbytery statement in the1998 advertisement which called for the rejection of power-sharing with murderers.”

27

News Item2/1/10 3:05 PM
The Reality Is  Find all comments by The Reality Is
The Truth Is wrote:
“It is clear that as men of God, the man of God cannot assume the office of the politician for reasons of his consecration to his call. The politicians are sent & speak for the people while the man of God is sent by Christ & speaks to the people.

The politician carries the desires & the concerns of his constituents while the preacher carries the word & commands of the Lord. The politician must speak the interest of his constituents.

Yet again you folks just ain't accepting and agreeing with Romans chapter 13......

You cannot just delete this from the Word of God, whether it fits with your religio-politico philosophy of community life or not. Deal with it!!

REMEMBER
Romans 13:
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is NO POWER but OF GOD: the POWERS that be ARE ORDAINED OF GOD.

You might also note that....
Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
= Who planted the tree of knowledge of good and evil??????

Try and remember that you will not find ANY perfect sinless politicians on this earth!

26

News Item1/31/10 2:54 PM
The Truth Is  Find all comments by The Truth Is
The Reality Is wrote?
“ps Did you know that politics is not religion?”

Those lines have been blurred by Ian Paisley himself.

Elder J. Dale Lewis:
“It is clear that as men of God, the man of God cannot assume the office of the politician for reasons of his consecration to his call. The politicians are sent & speak for the people while the man of God is sent by Christ & speaks to the people. The politician is forbidden to speak freely for God & speaks only in behalf of the people he represents. The man of God, on the other hand, is required to speak only of the things of God to the people the Lord has sent to him.
"No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier." 2nd Timothy 2:4.

The politician carries the desires & the concerns of his constituents while the preacher carries the word & commands of the Lord. The politician must speak the interest of his constituents. The man of God is required by the Holy Ghost to speak the interest & desires of no one but the one that sent him; no not even his own interests & opinions. "Jesus saith unto them, my meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." John 4:34; 5:30; 6:38; not the will of the people."

25

News Item1/31/10 2:09 PM
The Reality Is  Find all comments by The Reality Is
The Truth Is wrote:
Retired FPC Gospel Minister Ivan Foster explains ........

Dr. Ian Paisley was the prime mover in getting the Free Presbyterian Church to agree to the 1988 Solemn Covenant and the ..........

I genuinely hope that you and Ivan the perfect grasp the reality of life on planet earth soon. Apparently like the Liberals you don't like Democracy either.
Try to perceive that GOD is omnipotent, omniscient and sovereign over all - EVEN Ulster.

ps Did you know that politics is not religion?

24

News Item1/30/10 3:18 PM
June  Find all comments by June
A thoughtful analysis by Shaun Willcock, of Bible-Based Ministries

Article: 'Sinn Fein/IRA Triumphant in Northern Ireland'

http://www.biblebasedministries.co.uk/2006/11/30/sinn-feinira-triumphant-in-northern-ireland/

EXCERPT:
“In a move that shocked Protestants across Northern Ireland and around the world, Free Presbyterian minister and leader of the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), Ian Paisley, agreed to his party forming a power-sharing government with Sinn Fein, the Roman Catholic/Marxist party behind the diabolical, murderous Irish Republican Army (IRA). And the coalition government came into being on May 8, 2007, with the devolution of power from London to the Northern Ireland Assembly. Ian Paisley became First Minister in the new government, with Martin McGuiness of Sinn Fein/IRA becoming Deputy First Minister. Although many, weary of the years of conflict in Northern Ireland, think that this coalition government is actually a good thing, or at least “better than the alternative”, it is not. It is nothing less than an alliance with murderers and terrorists – and such an alliance can never, ever be a good thing. As the Scripture says: “When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn” (Prov. 29:2).”

23

News Item1/29/10 7:15 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Con Fuddled wrote:
Ahem. John....
Hows about----
The Scots tribe are originally from Ireland so they could all return there.
The Anglo-Saxons are originally from Germany so you lot could go back there. The Normans could go back to France with the Gauls/Celts also to France too.
Now science tells us that the original people of Ireland came from Spain - So they could go back there.
Having depopulated these islands everything will return to a peaceful existence of flora and fauna.
See how simple the solution is.
All right Con, you've got me well and truly Fuddled.

But if you think I'm going to live in Berlin, think again. I have to live by the seaside because I get closterfobbic inland.

Oh I do like to be beside the seaside
Oh I do like to be beside the sea
I do like to walk along the prom prom prom
Where the brass band plays tiddly om pom pom

Good night

22

News Item1/29/10 6:25 PM
The Truth Is  Find all comments by The Truth Is
Retired FPC Gospel Minister Ivan Foster explains how I. Paisley / FPC once understood Rom. 13
Power-sharing with murderers — right or wrong?
Link: http://www.ivanfoster.net/pdf/July0701.pdf

“On May 20th, 1998, the General Presbytery of the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster was associated with an advert in the local press, calling on all to say NO" in the referendum on the Good Friday Agreement. It was signed by most if not all of the then ministers of the Free Presbyterian church.

. . part of that 1998 advert reads: “We the undersigned, having professed faith in Christ as our Lord and Saviour and bound in conscience by the infallibility of the Word of God, declare the truth that governments have divinely been given the power of the sword for the punishment of evil doers, and the power of protection for the praise of them that do well. The Agreement flies in the face of Holy Scripture and punishes those that do well and praises those that are evil doers. We protest against this outrage.” Romans 13:3-4.”

Dr. Ian Paisley was the prime mover in getting the Free Presbyterian Church to agree to the 1988 Solemn Covenant and the placing of the Presbytery statement in the1998 advertisement which called for the rejection of power-sharing with murderers.”

21

News Item1/29/10 5:04 PM
The Reality Is  Find all comments by The Reality Is
The Truth Is wrote:
Truth and righteousness were abandoned for political
power and temporal glory.”
Where on this planet and in man's history of ALL nations, have "Truth and Righteousness" EVER been "THE" political government of any nation?

Yet GOD states;
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God."

"Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour."

Jesus prayed
"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil."

Walk the narrow path if you can!

20

News Item1/29/10 4:24 PM
The Truth Is  Find all comments by The Truth Is
Timely comments from a God-fearing man, Ivan Foster, Retired FREE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH Gospel Minister:

THE SHAME OF THE DUP STANCE ON MURDER
Link: http://www.ivanfoster.net/pdf/Mar0901.pdf

Excerpt:
“Truth and righteousness are deemed less important than political expediency

Infamously, the DUP chose to enter a power-sharing arrangement with the murderous
Sinn Fein/IRA organisation, taking them into government and into the joint office of
First and Deputy First Minister. Martin McGuinness, self-confessed IRA leader and operative,
as a result of the DUP's decision now rules Northern Ireland in conjunction with Mr.
Peter Robinson, the leader of the DUP.

Truth and righteousness were abandoned for political
power and temporal glory.”

*********

19

News Item1/29/10 12:31 PM
Con Fuddled  Find all comments by Con Fuddled
John UK wrote:
Well, one solution would be to create a new city in Scotland, and the government could finance the building of it, and also the transportation of everyone who wished to emigrate. I expect all would want to go.
Ahem. John....
Hows about----
The Scots tribe are originally from Ireland so they could all return there.

The Anglo-Saxons are originally from Germany so you lot could go back there. The Normans could go back to France with the Gauls/Celts also to France too.

Now science tells us that the original people of Ireland came from Spain - So they could go back there.

Having depopulated these islands everything will return to a peaceful existence of flora and fauna.

See how simple the solution is.

18

News Item1/29/10 5:39 AM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
The Truth Is wrote:
John - UK
I do not take exception to your statement that Christians pray for the conversion of terrorists. It is a basic tenet of Christianity that we pray for our enemies. Nevertheless I maintain that ehud's comment goes to the heart of the matter.
As I have already stated, truth and justice are central tenets of biblical Christianity as well....
Okay, so how about applying justice to the land known as Ulster? Let us return it, and apologise for having taken it by violence.

You say, "But what about the people living there?"

Well, one solution would be to create a new city in Scotland, and the government could finance the building of it, and also the transportation of everyone who wished to emigrate. I expect all would want to go.

QE2 could relinquish her authority in NI and hand back sovereignty to the Irish, who could then remove the borders and restore Ireland to how it was in the tenth century.

The problem is, that the English are a proud lot, and would never admit to being in the wrong. But if this had been done years ago.......

17

News Item1/28/10 7:53 PM
The Truth Is  Find all comments by The Truth Is
John - UK

I do not take exception to your statement that Christians pray for the conversion of terrorists. It is a basic tenet of Christianity that we pray for our enemies. Nevertheless I maintain that ehud's comment goes to the heart of the matter.

As I have already stated, truth and justice are central tenets of biblical Christianity as well. Those who hold positions of public trust are to execute justice. How much more should this be the burden of a PREACHER? The signal verse at I.Paisley's EIPS website is Jer. 50:2.
Justice is integral to upholding the Gospel standard!

Mr. Paisley's remark "I'll jail McGuinness any day soon", though said in jest, betrays where he truly believes he should be. That being said, Mr. Paisley could just as well pray for M. McGuinness's conversion were he in jail.

Mr. Paisley, by occupying the position of preacher and politician for decades, has brought the leaven of politics and the contention it has wrought into the church. Because he is a prominent preacher, his words and actions have wider implications for the church of Jesus Christ that go beyond Ulster.

16

News Item1/28/10 4:26 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
The Truth is

My comments were restricted only to the news item, as I see it as Christian charity to pray for any man who asks for it. Who knows but that many more former terrorists may yet be converted. (I hope that thought doesn't bother you.)

Your point is that this event has roots which go back a long way, and is better known by those in Ulster and acqainted with the politics of Northern Ireland. As I stay clear of politics as best I can, I know extremely little about these things, and therefore cannot engage you on these points you raised.

The moderators rightly attempt to keep forums as much as possible on the subject, but if you believe this news items has many undercurrents, you may find that you have some opportunity to look at the causes as well as the effects.

15

News Item1/28/10 4:06 PM
The Truth Is  Find all comments by The Truth Is
John - UK,
I think Ehud's comment does go to the heart of the matter! What about truth and justice, central tenants of biblical Christianity? Was it just to be party to a deal that ultimately brought to N.I. a terrorist-inclusive government? Consider the words of Mr. Paisley uttered with levity in 2007 when he was First Minister of N.I. (though it was and is no laughing matter)

'I'll jail McGuinness any day soon', jokes Paisley
(by Suzanne Breen, Sunday Tribune) here: http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/Sunday_Tribune/arts2007/may6_Ill_jail_McGuinness_soon__SBreen.php

Now consider Mr. Paisley's words in 2002 when he wrote with rejoicing:

'The Northern Ireland Executive, which included IRA/Sinn Fein terrorists, has fallen! ‘The Lord Reigneth’ Ps 99 v 1 here: http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=fallen

“Truth can never be finally dethroned, so long as the God of Truth reigns. It may be kicked in the gutter, and those who uplift Truth’s banner may suffer, but in the end light will expel all darkness. I would ask you to read the following Scriptures: Ps.99:1; Jeremiah 5:22; Ps. 75:6,7; Dan. 2:21; Matt. 24:6; Rom. 8:31; Matt. 10:29-31.”

14

News Item1/28/10 3:27 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
The Truth Is wrote:
I think the "original comment of ehud - belfast" goes to the heart of the matter, and on that account, bears repeating...
I don't think the "original comment of ehud - belfast" goes to the heart of the matter, and on that account, does not bear repeating...
13

News Item1/28/10 3:20 PM
Elatzted  Find all comments by Elatzted
The Truth Is wrote:
as this may offend pro fpc
Are you Arminian ehud?
Is that why you are anti-FPC?

Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

12

News Item1/28/10 1:06 PM
The Truth Is  Find all comments by The Truth Is
I think the "original comment of ehud - belfast" goes to the heart of the matter, and on that account, bears repeating:

"elijah did not pray with ahab what fellowship has light with darkness and i mean darkness of the darkest dye. This should not have happened and is an affront to all those who have been butchered at the hands of maguiness `s ira.It is a disgrace and a true exposure of paisley`s folly and brings ot memory his attacks on Billy Graham etc.We need a Nathan to rebuke this man.

One serious point to note -this will be removed by the editor as this may offend pro fpc owner of sermon audio -who should be defending the truth rather than supressing it"

11
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