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FRONT PAGE  |  11/29/2020
SATURDAY, JAN 12, 2008  |  166 comments
Evangelists lament Calvinism, SBC trends
JACKSON, Tenn. (BP)--A group of 15 evangelists meeting in Jackson, Tenn., Jan. 7-8 said they have concerns about the growth of Calvinism and the rise of a Willow Creek-style of non-confrontational evangelism within Southern Baptist churches.

A LifeWay Research study released in November reported about 10 percent of Southern Baptist pastors identified themselves as Calvinists. However, 29 percent of recent SBC seminary graduates espoused Calvinist doctrine.

The study concluded that a minority of SBC churches are led by Calvinist-leaning pastors, but that number is increasing. Also, Calvinist-led churches are generally smaller in worship attendance and baptisms than non-Calvinist churches. However, the study said the baptism rates between Calvinist and non-Calvinist led churches are virtually identical. Additionally, the study found that Calvinistic recent graduates report that they conduct ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 166 user comment(s)
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News Item1/22/08 11:39 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Find all comments by Michael Hranek
Saint terry evans from miramar beach FL
DB

Thanks for the posts
About the only thing I can see Yamil is truly guilty of is that he refuses Calvinism, if this is all that he is guilty of

So does He claim that Jesus didn't die and shed His blood for sinners to save them?

Does He claim Jesus is not the Incarnate Son of God the Second Person of the Trinity, the only name given under heaven among men whereby we must be saved?

Does He claim ...one doesn't have to be a Calvinist to be saved? that would of course be another

BTW If the "gospel" around here is that you must conform to fullblown 5 Point TULIP Calvinism with its regeneration (new birth) before repentance and faith to be saved and be a child of God THAT WOULD BE A FALSE GOSPEL INDEED.

Let me wait on RK's response if he cares to and Yamil's comments that is if you don't mind and kindly give more than just accusations about Yamil give quotes, explain clearly why you claim he has another gospel or another Jesus that is of course if you actually can do so with something more than negative feelings about the man.

But please don't expect me to buy into your judgment of him blindly with no facts to back it up, thank you very much.

166

News Item1/22/08 11:01 PM
Patrick  Find all comments by Patrick
Discerning Believer wrote:
Michael,
This is what Brother John Greer from Ballymena Free Presbyterian Church has posted on their site.
http://www.ballymenafpc.org/
Scrol down to where it says:
"How Long Have I to Live ?"
It is very direct and to the point. There is no arm twisting, no high pressure sales gimmicks. I wouldn't mind using it in presenting the gospel myself.
What do you think?
DB and any others interested in this excellent piece on the Ballymena FPC website --

It is available as a tract entitled "How Long Have I To Live" in the exact words you have read. I have a small stock of this and other tracts which I obtained from my local FPC.
You should be able to do likewise.
In case of difficulty, the tract is printed by --
Lifeline Publication
1600 Neilson Rd
Scarborough Ontario Canada M1X 1S3

May the Lord bless your outreach to the lost, for His glory alone.

165

News Item1/22/08 10:35 PM
Discerning Believer  Find all comments by Discerning Believer
Michael,

This is what Brother John Greer from Ballymena Free Presbyterian Church has posted on their site.

http://www.ballymenafpc.org/

Scrol down to where it says:

"How Long Have I to Live ?"

It is very direct and to the point. There is no arm twisting, no high pressure sales gimmicks. I wouldn't mind using it in presenting the gospel myself.

What do you think?

164

News Item1/22/08 10:10 PM
Saint terry evans | miramar beach fl  Contact via emailFind all comments by Saint terry evans
Michael Hranek wrote:
RK
Just what then is the gospel that you preach? Please explain clearly.

if you are wrong it is you who is in serious iniquity and the distinct possibility of hearing 'Depart from Me I never knew you who practise iniquity.

'
btw once you state your case I would be interested in hearing what WOMI says.

WOMI is preaching another Jesus and another gospel
Don't know what PASTOR womi teaches in his church
but its another gospel arond here.
Michael,
you cannot see that?
I would be interested in hearing what WOMI says.
WHY, he says the same thing over and over.
Check my comments to him
He is so blinded by hatred of calvinist
and by, pride.
By the way Michael, do you deny the sin of Adam is passed on from birth through all generations?
The whole sin nature thing, remember?
And why do you want both sides
Can you not tell, you been around here longer than I, you read the comments.
Are you rebuking a brother falsly?
Will you Judge
You were wrong before, were you not a devoult catholic, Tell me Michael where is it written not to defend the Gospel
That the gates of hell are to prevail
That false teaching should go without rebuke
That a christian should not decern evil
That there is no hell, and God loves every
163

News Item1/22/08 9:47 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Find all comments by Michael Hranek
RK
Just what then is the gospel that you preach? Please explain clearly. You've claimed WOMI is preaching another Jesus and another gospel and supposedly you are not. Without by the way supporting your accusation with any direct quotes of the one you are accusing here on SermonAudio publically. I would appreciate hearing what your gospel is and who your Jesus is and how you think you are correct and WOMI is not only wrong but by your accusation not even a Christian. For if you are wrong it is you who is in serious iniquity and the distinct possibility of hearing 'Depart from Me I never knew you who practise iniquity.'

btw once you state your case I would be interested in hearing what WOMI says.

162

News Item1/22/08 8:25 PM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Find all comments by R. K. Borill
Mike wrote:
Nice verses. Here's another:
Philippians 1:18
"What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."
Mike,

Good verse also. This only means that the preacher is irrelevant, but the truth is not. Notice that even if it is in "pretence" it is nevertheless "Christ", and not false doctrine or a false gospel. WOMI does not preach Christ even in "pretence", because his doctrine is false doctrine. Therefore, he preaches "another Jesus", "another gospel", and the same apostle said:

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of "Christ" unto ANOTHER GOSPEL: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of "Christ". But though we, or an angel heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, LET HIM BE ACCURSED." Gal. 1:6-8

If it is Christ's gospel, it must be according to the truth of Scripture, because He is the TRUTH, the Word of God and can not be separated from the Word.

161

News Item1/22/08 7:47 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
R. K. Borill wrote:
"But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves in the the apostles of Christ. And no marvel for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore, it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness whose end is according to their works." 2 Cor. 11:12-15
Nice verses. Here's another:

Philippians 1:18
"What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."

160

News Item1/22/08 7:44 PM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Find all comments by R. K. Borill
Saint terry evans wrote:
Pastor
Gods Word in action
A rare site around here
Amen
How does that go, something about you do what, and the devel will flee.
I think he just backed up, preach it
Thanks Brother Terry
159

News Item1/22/08 7:16 PM
Saint terry evans | miramar beach fl  Contact via emailFind all comments by Saint terry evans
R. K. Borill wrote:
"But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves in the the apostles of Christ. And no marvel for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore, it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness whose end is according to their works." 2 Cor. 11:12-15
Pastor
Gods Word in action
A rare site around here
Amen
How does that go, something about you do what, and the devel will flee.

I think he just backed up, preach it

158

News Item1/22/08 6:37 PM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Find all comments by R. K. Borill
Michael Hranek wrote:
RK
A most serious accusation.
"But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves in the the apostles of Christ. And no marvel for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore, it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness whose end is according to their works." 2 Cor. 11:12-15
157

News Item1/22/08 6:29 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Find all comments by Michael Hranek
R. K. Borill wrote:
No gnats. No 30 minute transcript necessary. I have read enough of what you believe and preach, and it is not the truth. Also, if it is not the truth then the one you preach is not the Lord of Scripture. It is "another Jesus". That is why I said you leading her in some sort of sinner's prayer is not the same as what we find in Acts 16:30-31. It is not calling upon the Lord Jesus Christ of scripture and truth. "He that hath not the doctrine of Christ hath not God." 2 Jn 9
Nothing complex about this.
RK
A most serious accusation.
156

News Item1/22/08 6:24 PM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Find all comments by R. K. Borill
Weapon of Mass Instruction wrote:
Yep.
R.K. Borill is obviously choking on a gnat. He obviously wants a transcript of the 30 minute dialogue I had with her.
No gnats. No 30 minute transcript necessary. I have read enough of what you believe and preach, and it is not the truth. Also, if it is not the truth then the one you preach is not the Lord of Scripture. It is "another Jesus". That is why I said you leading her in some sort of sinner's prayer is not the same as what we find in Acts 16:30-31. It is not calling upon the Lord Jesus Christ of scripture and truth. "He that hath not the doctrine of Christ hath not God." 2 Jn 9

Nothing complex about this.

155

News Item1/22/08 6:10 PM
Saint terry evans | miramar beach fl  Contact via emailFind all comments by Saint terry evans
listen.. wrote:
The most important thing is that someone repented and was born again, there is no 'magic formula'. And besides, we have nothing to do with it, the Holy Spirit is the one who convicts the sinful heart, using the sword to break through the calloused heart. It is quite obvious this senseless c. vs a. argument will produce no winner. What it is producing is division, and a huge waste of precious time. It isn't a matter of rightly dividing the truth when others insist on thrusting opinion forward; what we should all be able to agree on is the need for repentance leading to Christ. The heart is prepared for Christ when it is broken over its condition of sin. Let's continue to proclaim God's truth, and quit picking fights amongst ourselves Satan is having a field day, and many are falling into his snare
Amen
Someone in the Bible said something like
Let those who have ears to hear, HEAR
Also
Matthew 7 (KJV)
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you depart from me, ye that work iniquity

Scary part, He is speaking about "Christians" who say
Lord, Lord
have we not

154

News Item1/22/08 5:25 PM
Weapon of Mass Instruction | Dehvastating Truth  Find all comments by Weapon of Mass Instruction
Thanks for the graciousness, DB but I would have to disagree.

The great commision includes the responsibility of discipleship. Sadly, many churches lack in this area and that is why we have many carnal Christians today. It's not necessarily the converts fault that someone failed to disciple him.

I have personally met with several Christians that were like that.

I would agree that there should at the least be an initial sincere interest in the things of God and a hunger for "milk" like a new babe. But this does not mean that (1) we can fail to nurture a convert and (2) that the convert sometime down the line backslides to such a state that God takes him home.

There is only one external evidence that God dictates in the Bible for salvation and that one is: the chastening of the Lord. Whoever is without chastisement is a b*st*rd.

I can stand corrected, but that is all I see.

153

News Item1/22/08 5:16 PM
Discerning Believer  Find all comments by Discerning Believer
Mike, I tend to agree. We see the case of the sinner and the publican. The sinner recognized his state and just simply stated, "Lord, be merciful to me a sinner". He recognized who Jesus was, LORD. He saw himself as he is, A SINNER. He knew the only recourse, HAVE MERCY.

Jesus then said that this man went home "JUSTIFIED".

Some definitely go so far to the extreme and neglect human responsibility, while others neglect God's complete sovereignty.

Jago is right though, if this was of the Lord who brought her to repentance, then the fruit will produce.

I asked Yamil about some Catholics who were saved recently and he did tell me that they followed the Lord in baptism and are attending his church. All I can say is praise God and rejoice that sinners repented and left the RCC.

The marks of true conversion is continuing to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord. The bible says, "By their fruits you shall know them" not "By their assurance you shall know them."

152

News Item1/22/08 5:07 PM
Weapon of Mass Instruction | Dehvastating Truth  Find all comments by Weapon of Mass Instruction
The evidences of salvation is for one to have personal assurance, not for YOU to point the finger and stand as judge of who is saved and who is not.

Salvation is by Sola Gratis, not grace plus evidences of salvation.

151

News Item1/22/08 5:02 PM
jago | australia  Find all comments by jago
Now we wait to see the fruit of the Spirit in her life. If the conversion was of God she will desire to know more of Him and will want to meet with others who love the saviour. There should be evidence of a real change in her life.
150

News Item1/22/08 4:58 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
R. K. Borill wrote:
JD,
Read! WOMI didn't say anything about calling on the name of the Lord!
This is what he said:
"An indonesian girl accepted the Lord as Savior last night. I told her that she must see herself as a sinner deserving hell. I also told her that God loved her. She bowed her head and asked the Lord to forgive her of her sins and to save her."
His ellaboration of what it means to "accept the Lord": "I told her that she must see herself as a sinner deserving hell. I also told her that God loved her. She bowed her head and asked the Lord to forgive her of her sins and to save her."
Compare what he said to Acts 16:30-31
None of what he said is in John 3:16 either that he loves to quote so much.
Well, I'm not sure why this is difficult to see. If asking "..the Lord to forgive her of her sins and to save her" is not calling on the Lord, then what is? Recognizing one's sinfulness and asking for forgiveness carries the implication that the one asking *believes* that the One asked can and will do it. No need to make it complex.
149

News Item1/22/08 4:46 PM
Weapon of Mass Instruction | Dehvastating Truth  Find all comments by Weapon of Mass Instruction
Ml wrote:
Did you also tell her that she must repent or perish?
Luk 13:5
Yep.

R.K. Borill is obviously choking on a gnat. He obviously wants a transcript of the 30 minute dialogue I had with her.

Maybe in the F_anciful L_and of the Calvinist can one ask the Lord to forgive him without calling on his name but not here in the real world.

Unless R.K. believes that that girl is an alien from out of space (which it would not surprise me), it is safe to say that since she is part of the "world" that God loves her just as much as everyone else in the world.

The dehvastating truth is no converts have been made by telling them that God MAY love him, but that he DOES love him.

No converts have ever been made by telling them that they have to be part of the elect, but rather that God desires them to be saved.

The theological vanity of Calvinism can be seen in that they do not even preach Calvinism to the seeking sinner. They call our gospel the false gospel but make no distinction between mine and theres. For someone that hates arminianism, they sure have no problem exploiting its gospel to gain more followers.

148

News Item1/22/08 4:14 PM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Find all comments by R. K. Borill
JD wrote:
What are we going to do? Tell the young girl that she cannot just call on the name of the Lord and be saved. How many steps do you guys have, please?
The church of another christ has about 5, I think.
JD,

Read! WOMI didn't say anything about calling on the name of the Lord!

This is what he said:

"An indonesian girl accepted the Lord as Savior last night. I told her that she must see herself as a sinner deserving hell. I also told her that God loved her. She bowed her head and asked the Lord to forgive her of her sins and to save her."

His ellaboration of what it means to "accept the Lord": "I told her that she must see herself as a sinner deserving hell. I also told her that God loved her. She bowed her head and asked the Lord to forgive her of her sins and to save her."

Compare what he said to Acts 16:30-31
None of what he said is in John 3:16 either that he loves to quote so much.

147
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