Michael Hranek wrote:
Insufficient time to write more
1. I am not arguing for the apostolic gifts

Michael Hranek wrote:
2. I am say we need and ought to seek God for the Power of the Holy Spirit, in our lives, service, witness, praying

Michael Hranek wrote:
btw the pastor did not pray, my friend, her family and friends did _ afterwards when he was visiting her home and she told him what had happened, it was then he cussed her out, essentially for what God did in answer to prayer

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Michael Hranek wrote:
So why did you get so upset?

Michael Hranek wrote:
Do you somehow begrudge that someone would desire to preach the Gospel in the Power of the Holy Spirit?

Michael Hranek wrote:
Do real genuine wrought in the Sovereignty of God miracles in answers to the prayers of His people make you uncomfortable? Are they embarressing to you?

Michael Hranek wrote:
I know of a pastor who cussed out a Baptist friend in TN after God miraculously restored her deathly ill son to health in answer to prayer

John UK wrote:
I know many born again preachers who preach the gospel...

John UK wrote:
Another example: How many folks who are preachers are actually called of God to preach?

Phil. 1: 18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Because it all falls "out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel".

John UK wrote:
I both agree and disagree, Josh. For example, you say that the power is in the gospel itself, not in the preacher. Well the Lord used the gospel preaching of three men to bring me to himself, none of whom would be acceptable to some folks here on SA because they don't fit in the intellectual pigeon-holed idea of what a regenerate person should believe on secondary issues.

John UK wrote:
And there are many here who were converted under Billy Graham or other arministic preachers, who get lambasted quite harshly by "The Reformed". Nasty, eh?

John UK wrote:
1 Corinthians 2:4-5 KJV
(4) And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
(5) That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
This is what is required, Josh. When you get preaching like this, not the intellectual spiritless run of the mill preaching, then men are deeply affected, because God is at work.
Have you watched the Revival Hymn yet?

Michael Hranek wrote:
imho a wonderful question to humbly and honestly consider before the Lord in our praying that He would show us and teach us the Truth is:
Does God want our faith to rest in the wisdom of men, even in the wisdom of sincere scholarly relgious men, or stand in the Power of God?
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e0jgX3nho8]]]Revival Hymn[/URL]

No one denies the need for the power of God, but in case you had forgotten:

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for ***it is the power of God unto salvation*** to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

[URL=http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/grace-journal/12-3_03.pdf]]] Miracles Today?[/URL]

And another by Michael Haykin on Revivals, the sign gifts and "enthusiasm" to put to bed the notion that somehow they were resurrected during extraordinary revivals or that the revivalists encouraged claims to direct revelations from the Spirit of God.

runethegoon wrote:
I feel like what passes off for the signs and wonders movement is a cheep immatation of anything remotly biblical. The tounges of today are but repititous babbling, lacking biblical interpretation. The barking on the floor, slain in the spirit, where does it end. The puritans called this will worship, we will worship according to our own vain devices and imagininations. We are called to rightly divide the word of truth. All we see today is liberal theology masking in ungodly deceptions. Experience over scripture is the same as the RCC tradition over scripture. Gospel preaching is what the christian church is needing instead we get self help to pull yourselver up by
your own boot straps psycho babble. No law or gospel and liberals and Roman Catholics casting out demons by using God' s name as a magic talisman. We need the Gospel not deliverence ministery.

John UK wrote:
It seems to me you are resorting to playing with strawmen, in order to bolster your inability to look at plain facts.
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I know for a fact that when I prayed over a young Christian sister, she was overjoyed that her splitting headache was taken away by the Lord. It's a shame that Josh would have offered her an aspirin, or told her to cease sinning as it was obviously a judgment of God on her.

John UK wrote:
Maybe some folks deliberately avoid having experiences so that they don't have to come before the Reformed Check-up Police blah

John UK wrote:
This is my testimony, and I will not change that for anybody or anything. I've no doubt at all, that if you examine every Christian on these boards, some will have a similar testimony, but will not speak of it because they don't like the flak, whereas it don't bother me none.

Michael Hranek wrote:
There is also a wonderful holy of the Spirit of the Living God for the poor that is beautiful to have and grow up into. Christopher000, your testimony imho touches on some people having a childish immaturity in the faith but still that in there somewhere is a genuine love for others that seems so lacking and stunningly absent in (hard to put in words without being condemning) churches that seemingly know only a cold intellectual emphasis on religous scholarship (from what I have read/heard CH Spurgeon did NOT have this, his scholarship cared for the poor)
Thanks for your posts
Much to learn

John UK wrote:
Do all converts speak with new tongues? Of course they do, and if they do not they are not converted.
Mark 16:17 KJV
(17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
What "new tongues"?
2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV
(17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Does the convert have a new tongue? Of course he does.

Michael Hranek wrote:
And how in 1 Corinthians the natural man (carnal unsaved, unregenerate man, maybe just maybe a saved man who is unrenewed/untransformed in the renewing of his mind in disobedience to the word of God as well) accepts not the things of the Spirit of God

John UK wrote:
Josh, I don't think your interpretation fits the text at all. In fact, I believe you have started with a doctrine, and are now trying to squeeze this text to make it fit. .....
Man, it don't jive. Give it another read through, and don't base your doctrines on what I can or cannot do. That is a sure way to error, which is why sola scriptura is best.

John UK wrote:
It makes no sense whatever, but seems to shore up the "we don't want any of that funny Holy Ghost business in our church thank you very much".

John UK wrote:
Josh, I am quite willing to discuss this with you, and I hope it can remain amicable, as I assure you I am not writing from a position of authority on the board, as no-one has that right. Observe...
Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
(Mark 16:14-18 KJV)
Now do you have it?

The Lord made a pointed reference back to their previous unbelief.

If not you give credence to the Charismtic notion that a person does not now have the gifts because they don't believe. For all their believing they still cannot reproduce the NT signs!

John UK wrote:
I think the NT is better for this, Josh.
Mark 16:17a KJV
(17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils...
Now the party line is that this is referring to the apostles. So let us put up the text with that:
Mark 16:15-17 KJV
(15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
(16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
(17) And these signs shall follow them that believe [not the ones who believe and are saved, but the apostles who believe]; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Nope, don't jive.

John UK wrote:
But, if you're asleep in Zion.....well...

John UK wrote:
But now and again, a situation may arise where a devil must be addressed directly, especially if it is bent on killing you (a spirit, not a person). ...This is called "resisting the devil" in the NT.

10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.

11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord:

Look up a good commentary on these verses and you'll see that we are not to be speaking with evil spirits at all. In the NT the apostles spoke with the authority of Christ. They were his mouthpieces. What authority do we have to do these things?