Thank you and well put. I will have to say, after looking it over, that you may be correct. I will have to study it a little closer. But there is still an issue with the "many" called.

Since many are called, and many reject the calling, that must mean that non-elect people are called.

"For many are called, but few are CHOSEN" Matthew 22:14. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ said it, that's good enough for me."

context, context, context!!!

This verse was speaking about service, NOT salvation.

You might want to find a new verse to wrest (oops, rest ) all of your theology upon.

But, even if you do want to choose this verse for salvation, it is saying that more are called than are choosen.
The doctrine of Calvin says that ALL who are called are choosen, and only the elect are called.

"Jn 10:2 "But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: FOR THEY KNOW HIS VOICE.
5 And a stranger WILL THEY NOT FOLLOW, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers."

One problem - these sheep are already saved. If you would follow the line of reasoning by Cavinists, God chose certain peaople to be saved. Once saved, they would become "sheep", and his sheep are who hear his voice. This scripture is dealing with the saved, NOT the lost. We are predestinated IN Christ, NOT outside of Christ. And Predestination in one word is simply SANCTIFICATION.

Think on that for a while.

"Just keep reading your Bible son."

And as I kept reading my Bible, the Holy Spirit kept revealing to me that I was lost and separated from God. But it was wicked pride that I kept giving myself excuses to why I was saved. You know..."but I teach Sunday School, and Bible College, and preach, and...and..."

I was dwelling on things I did to convince myself I was saved. I even had specific prayer answered (who's to say God doesn't have to answer the prayer of the lost?). But when God finally humbled me (like he did with Paul - but I am in no way a Paul), I repented and confessed and BELIEVED that I was lost and separated from God - and what a day that was

I am not saying we must know everything about God. What I am saying is the Calvinist presupposition is wrong. And this presupposition is the filter they view all of scripture through.

I have not resorted to verbal assault due to lack of evidence. But rather because of pride and arrogance. I called myself a Calvinist at one time, and the condescending arrogance that accompanies that makes me sick. When I finally repented, and got saved, the blinders were removed and I was able to see Calvinism for what it was - fatalism!!
I was so religious, but God didn't know me, and I was as lost as could be.

Jesus said "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, NOR THE POWER OF GOD"

The Calvinist God is so limited that he has to control his subjects.

Yamil - in the words of pastor P - Calvinism destroys the simplicity of Christ.

If Jesus is God (and he is), why did he not reveal to all he came to that there were only some who were chosen, and the rest were not? Why did he constantly ask those he came to "believest thou this?"

Calvinism is a system that can be boiled down to one act - tempting God!!

They turn the table on God and require him to answer for his "choosing", all the while dubbing him Sovereign.

What is actually happening is God is not big enough to handle man's free will, so he is become a micro-manager who has not enough power to control his creation.

See, this is all a big play that began with Adam and Eve. It was God who made Adam sin and the act is still playing, and still waiting for the curtain to drop. It was God who made it all happen exactly how he wanted it to, and we are all just puppets. How does this scenario fit God's love? With the love you all have for your children and families, would you make them do something wrong, just so you could punish them? How sick!
Calvinism is completely and totally the doctrine of devils! What arrogance to think that God could not handle your free ability to choose.

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!

I get so sick of carnal worldly music, in or out of church!

"...speaking to yourselves in Psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs, making melody IN YOUR HEART, as unto the Lord."

"btw Somehow I just do not believe that the Holy Ghost fell upon any infants present to where they spoke in tongues and I do not believe Peter commanded any infants there to be baptized, just believers."

I think it was Jesus who said "suffer the little children to cime unto me..."

In the Bile, the priests never used fermented wine in sacrifices and the such because leven (yeast, which makes the juice ferment) is a type of sin.
That is why we use grape juice, because there was no "leven", sin, in the blood of Jesus.
Please note that in your Bible, there are several words translated "wine", and they don't always mean fermented alcoholic beverage. It would be a great study for you.

The amount of water is important because of the symbolism attached.
In the Old Testament, in the simplest form, all of the sacrifices were symbolic of the coming sacrifice; but they were to be strictly followed.
Baptism is symbolic of the death, BURIAL, and ressurection of that new believer. When we are buried, they don't sprinkle dirt on a dead body to bury it; they drop it in a hole and push all of the dirt back in. They are immersed (meaning there is dirt above them, under them, and all around them) in the grave. Really, the same symbolism is in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. He is above us, under us, all around us - immersed.

I know these things are symbolic, but I think God is very concerned with the symbolism he established. It simply comes down to a heart of obedience - and when God reveals the meaning of Baptism, the obedient heart desires to follow as closely as possible to what God was trying to symbolize.

Also, it is difficult to get past te fact that the very word Baptize means to dunk or immerse. It's like saying (as an American might) I dunked the doughnut in my coffee. Would you now conclude the he might have sprinkled or poured coffee on his doughnut? No. The very word "Dunked" defined what he did.

Yes, my brother says it is around 100 degrees about Christmas time. He and his "household" (which does include children, but no infants) are Independent Baptist missionaries living in Nowra, but once their two year stay with the Pastor they are sponsored by is expired, he is praying about starting a work in Melbourne. They are used to working in the inner-city, and Nowra has been rather lethargic feeling compared to inner-city Philladelphia. But they are looking great, and I think God has given them some needed rest before they begin a city work. I will have to ask him where in Melbourne they believe God is leading them, because he has mentioned a suburb, but I don't remember where.

Where do you attend church?

I don't remember agreeing with you much, but I think you are giving valid opposition to circumcision=baptism.

Wouldn't Judas have been circumcised? And didn't Jesus call him the Son of Perdition? If he was foreordained to be the Son of Perdition, and was circumcised by his parents, what effect did it have. He still went to Hell.
It just seems to me that circumcision could not be an end-all to weather someone was saved, and so to is baptism. It has no effect on someone's eternal destination.

And about households, who's to say what makes up the household. Some have parents only, some have parents and children, and some have parents, children and inlaws . You would have to read into scripture what isn't there, namely, household means a family unit that consists of parents AND children, and any combination of relatives, for that matter.

And, another question:
Why in the list of gifts listed in the book of Romans ( which to the best of my knowledge was written after the letters to the Corinthians) that there were none of the "spritual gifts".
There is no doubt that those believers in Rome did not have access to the letters written to the Corinthians, so how would they know that they could laugh and bark and heal like the others.

Another thing: What were believers before Calvin or Arminias?

Satan is still dividing the Church, and many of you are so bloated with pride that the tag line under your name reads "calvinist". I used to love the fact that I was a Calvinist. I was so much smarter and enlightened than every other dumb believer. No one loved truth but me. What pride! And then I got saved!! (and I am not joking). May God help our Idolatry (Calvin).

remember, the Bible says that Jesus is the Light of the world, that lighteth EVERY man that cometh into the world.

according to this, everyone born into this world has the knowledge of Christ. But not everyone is obedient to that light. Many recect the light, and because of their rejection, God hardens their heart so they can't believe, because they wouldn't believe. Remember, when god hardened Pharao's heart, he had already hardened his own heart. All God was doing was making sure, after his rejection, that he could not be saved.

We too have the same opportunity, and after some reject he Holy Spirit long enough, they sin a sin unto death, and can not be saved, but only because they already rejected.

Just keep reading your Bible and try to discard any predetemined ideas. Let the Holy Spirit guide you into all truth. And don't fall for these UNBIBLICAL titles such as Calvinist or Arminian. The Early church had this same problem, to which Paul tried to correct.
God can not lie...he WILL lead you, if you want to be lead. To bad so many have made up theur mind and won't be led.