Dr. Tim wrote: Watcher, you're so right; I have no desire to learn and grow. That's why I have read through the entire King James Bible more than 50 times, and read individual books of the Bible hundreds of times. It's why I've read hundreds of books about biblical topics, including books by Spurgeon, Lloyd-Jones, Pink, Gill, Bunyan, etc. My desire to refrain from learning is what prompted me to earn four seminary degrees, including three in Biblical Studies, and it accounts for my having read thousands of articles and sermons and completing dozens of Bible correspondence courses. I am clearly an unlettered simpleton, and like all such I love simplicity and hate knowledge (Proverbs 1:22). Your keen perception is impressive...
Oh my...forgive me your highness. Your resume is very impressive. I read through most of the dictionary once, and have read a good portion of the Bible, but just couldn't get through Chronicles without crying. You're a better man than me. I guess I just need more patience and grace from my Lord Jesus than you. Sorry.
Dr. Tim wrote: Watcher wrote, "Personally if this museum was situated in a mobile home park their visitor count would have surpassed this mark on its very first day!" I praise God that there are many churches that don't consider themselves too high and mighty to carry the gospel to trailer parks, government housing projects, homeless shelters and other places. I seem to recall that it was poor people who heard our Lord gladly.
Amen, Tim. I was just joking there. Yes, God usually uses the down and out, the dumb, ignorant, and backward to turn the world upside down. Heck, He chose me! That's sure saying something about His sense of humor.
Christopher000 wrote: Watcher Wrote: "...Just because we don't understand something or that it's a hard thing to swallow, doesn't mean we don't believe in it..." Copy that. There are plenty of things that I just don't, and never will understand, but that doesn't make any difference to me. God is always right and just, no matter what our human minds tell us otherwise.
Exactly. That's what I tried to explain to a JW big-wig that tried to bring me to my senses. He assumed I was just some joe-blow. Boy was he in for a surprise. I went over the trinity and how Jesus is called God in John chapter 1. He wouldn't have any part of it, no matter which way I turned him. It's fascinating to see the blindness of people. It's right there in black and white and they just can't see it.
Christopher000 wrote: So, I feel like I need to back up a second, because of something I read, to make something real clear...when I said that I still struggle, that didn't mean that I would ever agree with Arminianism as a whole, and all they believe and teach. Frankly, I think as a whole, and looking at the big picture, full blown Arminianism is dangerous, and exactly why so many are living a life of crime while believing, at the same time, that they're saved. What I struggle with to understand, if I ever even will, is some being born and chosen as the elect, while all the rest/most, being born to be destroyed...[QUOTE]It is hard to grasp for sure. There's much in scripture that I struggle to understand, but this is where faith comes in. This is why cults such as the JW's and Mormons have either gotten rid of what they either don't understand or don't agree with. Just because we don't understand something or that it's a hard thing to swallow, doesn't mean we don't believe in it. Personally, I leave it in God's hands. I understand to a degree the hard truths of Romans 9, and pray that little at a time, God helps me understand. Didn't Peter say this in one of his epistles? Even he found some of it hard to grasp.
Dr. Tim wrote: Abstinence from fornication is the will of God--I Corinthians 4:3. However, in Calvinist Fantasyland...
I have found in reading your comment, Tim, that you have no desire in learning and growing. Only a humble heart wants to grow and it does so, by admitting when he is wrong. You seem to be blinded from seieng the truth in the scriptures. Before God saved me, I never saw Romans 9, Isaiah 45, Proverbs 16...etc. They just weren't there. I was blinded to the truth, until God decided it was time to open my eyes.
How does one, such as yourself reconcile your thinking with verses such as Isa. 45.7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Or Proverbs 16. 4: The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Or Proverbs 21. 1: The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.
How does one excuse these verses? Your constant need to belittle those around you and make light of these subjects is telling. It definitely isn't Christ-like. As I have said before, forget Calvinism for once. It seems people have such a hate for Calvin, they can't see anything else. Let's stick to the Bib
John Yurich USA wrote: When I get married and have children the children will be home schooled. The school year will begin the day after Labor Day and end on 1 March. The school week will be only 4 days: Monday through Thursday.
Button, button...who's got the button? Oh, John does! Nice try fisherman.
Connor7 wrote: @JAG, thanks for the clarification, I see what you're saying, but would you say that Christ bore the wrath of God for Henry? As far as the term 'limited atonement' let me go ahead and address that, the way in which limited is used, it is not to say that 'God couldn't do this' nor 'God's power was restricted somehow' rather it is conveying the idea that Christ's atonement was for x amount of people, To say "Christ's atonement was universal' or 'Christ's atonement is unlimited' leads to universalism, thus the atoning work of Christ is limited to x amount of people, but His atonement fulfills the Father's will, for Christ died for the elect, and all the elect will be justified, and all the elect are the sheep of Christ (once justified) and He will lose none of them, the atonement is not wasted in any way shape nor form, Jesus bore the wrath of God for the elect and the elect alone.
I like the saying "Particular Atonement" rather than limited, but yes, limited just means, limited to a elected number of souls.
Dr. Tim wrote: God can certainly do anything He wants to--including leaving people to their own devices.
But this doesn't take away from His sovereignty. Romans 1 tells us that He abandoned man. This doesn't mean they are now outside of His sovereignty. Even those in hell are still in His sovereign will. When man rebels against God, he is only following God's will for him (i.e. Pharaoh is one perfect example).
Man has absolutely no power or right to go against God's will.
Dr. Tim wrote: I did. Now read Romans 10:21. And Matthew 23:37. People say no to God every day.
But do they do so OUTSIDE of God's sovereignty? You are not reading Romans 9 with understanding.
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God*? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to* make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
You can't read these verse and not see God sovereign election.
Just a Guy wrote: Watcher wrote... Just the fact that in the beginning God chose some and not others, brings me to tears. I was one of those He chose to save. WOW! It truly is amazing man...
I mean, think about it. God could have chosen NOT to save me, and no amount of good works would have changed Him mind. It was His sovereign will that decided that I was to be recipient of His grace, nothing else.
Dr. Tim wrote: If I paid for a possum dinner for every inhabitant of Mississippi, but only half of them showed up, would it be because my payment was insufficient or because half the people in Mississippi didn't know a good deal when they saw one?
If we want to look at it another way, can man say no to God? If so, then man is more powerful. Simple. Romans 9. Read it again.
Connor7 wrote: The reason I ask is because of the following: 1. It seems that if Christ died for Henry, yet Henry goes to Hell, then Christ's blood was in vain for Henry. 2. If Christ bore the wrath of God for all mankind, then God has no right to send anyone to Hell, for if everyone's sin was placed on Christ, then no one should be in Hell. Therefore it seems that we have a couple options:
I find in my discussions with others, is they attach limited atonement with Calvinism and no effort to prove this principle is biblical can convince them. It's as if those of us who are either labeled Calvinist or believe in this truth are accusing us of bragging. Like we are saying that we are part of some big boys club and we have bragging rights accordingly. Nothing could be further from the truth! I can only speak for myself, but to understand and embrace Limited Atonement and to realize that God didn't have to save me, but did, through His sovereign will, leaves me broken, appreciative, thankful and totally and completely humbled. I brought nothing to the table. I couldn't save myself, for I thought I was saved. Just the fact that in the beginning God chose some and not others, brings me to tears. I was one of those He chose to save. WOW!
Dr. Tim wrote: As long as God is excluded from our public school systems, we may as well cut off the top half of our flagpoles. We won't be using them much.
A question for everyone who believes in the sovereignty of God:
IS God excluded from our schools? City Halls? Courtrooms? Can man shut God out of anywhere? "Free-Willers" will say yes, but honestly, do we see this in Scripture? Sure we see God allowing man to rebel, but that rebellion always falls within the boundaries of God's sovereignty.
Can man shut God out of anything? That's my question. Before anyone answers, think about our place in God's plans and who is on the throne, us or Him?
And one last thing, I am not talking about the fact that because public schools and universities teach evolution, relativism and endorse everything anti-God, but I am talking about the fact that God is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent.
Carl haydock wrote: That means a lot. I'm there for you too,as are a lot on here. One hard part was my dad,who was divorced from my mum for 40yrs, txt me complaining i hadn't got him a birthday card. It was 2 days after my mum's funeral.
Yeah...some people. My dad didn't shed a tear when my mom passed. Now he's alone and bitter. No wonder.
Carl haydock wrote: Thanks watcher. I'm not too bad, learning daily on how to deal with things. I will gladly email soon. It's always good to have some kind of fellowship with brothers and sisters.
Definitely. Any time. Don't ever feel like you'd be an inconvenience. We're supposed to be burden-bearers for each other, right? When my mom passed, I had no friends at all. When my dad passes (gotta be any time now), at least this time, I will have my wife and family.
Carl haydock wrote: My wife watched the "wedding" I refused to mainly to the fact she's a divorcee and neither of them are Christian whatsoever. Let's just say there was a lot of venom aimed my way.lol
Hope you're doing a little better brother. If you still want to email me, we can talk.
ladybug wrote: I begin this morning with the doctrine of Redemption. "He gave his life a ransom for many." The doctrine of Redemption is one of the most important doctrines of the system of faith. A mistake on this point will inevitably lead to a mistake through the entire system of our belief. For instance, the Arminian holds that Christ, when He died, did not die with an intent to save any particular person; and they teach that Christ's death does not in itself secure, beyond doubt, the salvation of any one man living. They believe that Christ died to make the salvation of all men possible, or that by the doing of something else, any man who pleases may attain unto eternal life; consequently, they are obliged to hold that if man's will would not give way and voluntarily surrender to grace, then Christ's atonement would be unavailing...- CH Spurgeon, from https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/spurgeon_charles/sermons/0181.cfm Christ himself tells us for whom He died "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep." John 10:11 It's astounding how that is not clear to some.
Frank wrote: Chris, you additional comments and thoughts are outstanding. Most of those who live in Western cultures are deceived into thinking they are Christians when they are not are simply those who use some sort of balance scale. They somehow believe they are better than someone else, so surely they will not suffer His wrath. They do not understand God's holiness or His justice.
And it all stems from the pulpit and churches that made a decision long ago, that having people in the pews was more important than having people in heaven.