You forgot to add
C.I. Scofield/J.N. Darby/E.W. Bullinger Dispensationalism
Pretrib-Rapture

to your list.

Preacher: Do you believe you are a sinner?

Sinner: Everybody is a sinner.

Preacher: Do you believe Jesus died for sinners?

Sinner: I think so.

Preacher: Do you want to invite Jesus in your heart and save you.

Sinner: I guess so.

Preacher: Now pray after me and really, really meant it with all your heart.

Sinner: OK.

Next day the preacher goes to pick him up for church. The new convert comes to the door smoking a cigarette, drinking a can of beer with the woman he is living with.

Sinner: I am not interested in going to church, don't come back.

Preacher to congregation: Hey, we saved one yesterday, add him to the roll.

Contender wrote:
As I have stated many times before we do not know who the elect and non-elect are, only God does and therefore we are to proclaim the gospel to all as Christ instructed. It is not for us to tell sinners that God loves them, it is the operation of the Holy Spirit to confirm God's love in them.

I didn't see anywhere where John the Baptist told the Jews that God loves them and has a wonderful plan for their life either. He told them to repent for the kingdom was at hand.

The only time the love of God was mentioned in a personal way was to the disciples that followed him and in Paul's epistles to the believers in the church.

Even the apostle John was writing to believers.

Minnow wrote:
2] God does not love everybody but telling the reprobate about His love, wont make a blind difference to the unsaved designated for hell.

Minnow wrote:
3] Coming to saving faith is the work of the Holy Spirit. Therefore human verbal communication whether given or received, does not change the elect unto salvation or reprobation.
God can do that by Himself.

Minnow wrote:
You appear to give an inordinately high value to human communications. Where is the Holy Spirit involved?

(Psa 26:5) I have loved less the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked.

(Psa 31:6) I have loved less them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD.

(Psa 101:3) I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I love less the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.

(Psa 119:104) Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I love less every false way.

(Psa 119:113) SAMECH. I love less vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.

(Psa 119:163) I love less and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.

(Pro 5:12) And say, How have I love less instruction, and my heart despised reproof;

(Amo 5:21) I love less, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.

(Amo 6:8) The Lord GOD hath sworn by himself, saith the LORD the God of hosts, I abhor the excellency of Jacob, and love less his palaces: therefore will I deliver up the city with all that is therein.

JD, you are the one who pumps the idea that words have meanings and defined by their context. That is why I posted verses that contain the same words, now all of a sudden it doesn't apply.

Mike wrote:
God loved Esau less.

(Psa 26:5) I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked.

(Psa 31:6) I have hated them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD.

(Psa 101:3) I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.

(Psa 119:104) Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

(Psa 119:113) SAMECH. I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.

(Psa 119:163) I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.

(Pro 5:12) And say, How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof;

(Amo 5:21) I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.

(Amo 6:8) The Lord GOD hath sworn by himself, saith the LORD the God of hosts, I abhor the excellency of Jacob, and hate his palaces: therefore will I deliver up the city with all that is therein.

(Zech 8:17)

Notice the words "to be" were not in the original Greek. The word for "conformed" is συμμορφους ans is used as an adjective. Thus rendering the verse "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate, conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

We see that God predestinated those whom He foreknew.

Romans 8:30 "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

Then he called those who he predestined and justified them, then he glorifies those whom he justifies.

--------

Mike from NY wrote:

Lots of "willing" there, Lone. Don't you need a will in order to be willing?
---------

Joh 8:36 "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

Instead of worrying about needing a will, are you willing?

Are you willing to humble yourself and empty yourself before God?

JD wrote:
WHOA!
Okay, this is brand new. Unconditional election and conditional salvation? This is even more confusing. If the person who has been elected does not meet the condition for salvation, is he then not elect anymore? The question arises. Is there any scenario when an elect person could ever be lost?

John 6:37-39 "All that the Father giveth me SHALL come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

JD wrote:
What is this new word "savingly?" I have not heard it yet.

Minnow, you contradict your own statements. That is what quote is trying to tell you.

In one place you say that it is not wrong to tell everybody that God loves them, but then you say that God does not love everybody. So by telling someone who may not be one of God's elect that God loves them are you in essence lying to them.

JD wrote:
Now don't get mad at me for pointing this out friend but all those things you mention above are "conditions" for salvation. You are the man who pumps "unconditional" salvation.
But, I do agree with you, salvation does have a condition and it is none of the above. It is faith alone in Jesus Christ. This is the lone condition for us to be saved.
Lets agree here. There is no way under heaven a reformed Baptist is able to be consistent with reformed doctrines in his evangelistic thrust. The prebys, maybe, but not the Baptists.
I can distinguish between the presbys and the baptists in just a few posts. There is a great deal of difference but you all put your head in the sand and ignore it.

The Holy Spirit is the one who brings you to savingly faith. It is evidenced by the terms I mentioned previously.

JD wrote:
Lone Wolf is in far worse shape of the two, if you ask me, but if I believed what he says he believes I think I might want to shoot myself. Read what he wrote. It seems election is not the issue at all, but coming to the end of oneself so he might trust in God's offer of pardon.
Someone help me here!

Then we'll talk.

Are you willing to humble yourself and empty yourself before God?

Are you willing to recognize your utter total depravity before God of any moral goodness to offer Him in exchange for salvation?

Are you willing to recognize the righteousness of Christ as satisfying God's requirement for Heaven?

Are you willing to recognize Christ as God's satisfaction for justice that he paid on the sinner's behalf?

Are you willing to repent of sin and faith toward God?

No JD, I am not the one in far worst shape here. I know my Redeemer in Jesus Christ, and He knows me. Do you?

Incognito wrote:
OK Lone Wolf
Your task from now on is to convert JD.

Incognito wrote:
The knowledge of salvation in the elect cannot be communicated across the divide to the non-elect, that is the way God works in us.
If it was communicable JD, then you and all your friends would become Calvinists.

1 Peter 3:15-16 "15. But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to ***every man*** that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 16. Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ."

Mike wrote:
Your position is also based on the assumption that had Adam not sinned, none of his descendants would have.

If Adam had not sinned then Jesus would have been slain for nothing.

Was Christ suceptible (sic) to contracting human diseases of the flesh like colds, sore throats, flu, leprosy etc. like you and me?