DJC49 wrote: So, "WHEN we were enemies, we WERE ['already' implied] reconciled to God -- IOW, we elect were walking around prior to our new-birth as enemies of God just like everybody else, and unbeknownst to us, we WERE already reconciled to God. But now, "much more, BEING reconciled, we SHALL BE saved by his life" (in the ultimate sense). I see some Universal application here. (Maybe I've been hanging 'round this forum to long, but) ... Might not ALL the enemies of God somehow benefit from Christ's Atonement? I see collateral benefit even to the reprobate arising from the Reconciliation afforded by Christ's death/Atonement. In this sense ONLY is the Atonement "Universal", i.e., it reconciles ALL so that God can deal with ALL men propitiously.
DJC49 wrote: Sorry, but virtually BILLIONS were NEVER MEANT TO HEAR THE GOSPEL. Their eternal destiny was sealed
A natural and VERY SAD outcome of your narrow and bigotted religion! Why do you suppose that the Great Commission was worded as it was, if what you say is correct? Since your god is disingenous in the promise of salvation, I guess to extend that attitude to cover the great commission is at least consistent.
Reality wrote: You appear to be trying to make the case that everybody who attends a church is reconciled. Reality obviously teaches different. Also JESUS taught 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. And 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
There is a difference between genuine believers and hypocrites! That is all that the verses you quoted are saying. They say nothing about who is and who is not reconciled!
DJC49 wrote: What did I tell ya, *jim68*? (see my post of 3/18/09 5:44 PM) Not ONE believer in Unlimited (Universal) Atonement would DARE come forward and answer your question above ... and they didn't! They NEVER do.
This really is not ROCKET SCIENCE. But you cannot receive the truth because your presuppositions blind you.
God is pacified by the work of Christ. The Good News is committed to the churches and should be proclaimed to all, that every person should repent and believe for the remission of sins. But the churches have failed and continue to fail. This faithlessness will be judged!!
The churches imagine that they can remain inactive with impunity, but there will be a reckoning for failure to obey the Great Commission!
Like the apostle Paul the churches should think that they are "..to be a light of the Gentiles, ...that..(they)..should be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.." Acts 13:47
Not a post that you will be able to stomach NO DOUBT. But at least you won't be able to repeat your SMUG BOAST that no one stepped up to the plate!
The promise that any who come will be forgiven must be DISINGENUOUS if the reconciliation was not made for the party/parties being addressed!
So I ask again how did the apostle Paul know for whom Christ had made reconciliation?
Re: Gospel is FACTS and COMMAND
Read ACTS and mark every gospel address for yourself. I think you might be surprised! Mark particularly the words "persuaded", "argued", "convinced","exhorted", "reasoned", "confounded" etc. NO cold flag waving exercise here! No "this is simply what you must believe"! Might even improve your preaching if you were to imitate the apostle
The gospel command is repent/believe AND you will be forgiven. NO repentance/faith NO forgiveness! Forgiveness is conditional!
rogerant wrote: And if He has reconciled everyone to Himself as the HYPER Arminians declare, then everyone must be saved, including Pharoah!
That is the fallacious conclusion you draw from it!
It is impossible for you to believe (because of your calv pre-suppositions) that God is propitious, but that irrespective sinful men will not repent and be reconciled to him; hence, why they incur more guilt for their rejection of the message of reconciliation!
Free. Will. Heresy wrote: This must be a lie too Mike..... 2Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Because the "world" was not ALL reconciled was it?
The apostle says the word of reconciliation was committed to him, which we know in the great commission was to be preached to every creature. So what did he preach to every creature?
Let's see shall we?
"Through his name whosoever believeth in his name shall receive remission of sins" Act 10:43
"Be it known unto you.. through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins, and by him all that believe are justified.." Acts 13:38
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" Acts 16:31
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent" Acts 17:30
Now how do you suppose the apostle could declare these words of reconciliation indiscriminately to so many if he had no certainty that the words of reconciliation applied to them? Do you suppose he had special knowledge as the Hyper-Calvs declare?