However, when the gospel exceeded Jewish bounds and went to the gentiles through Corneilus,the requirement was only that they believe the gospel of Jesus Christ in order to receive the gift of God. All who believe will receive him.

The difference between Jn 6 and Acts 10 is God was drawing the Jews to the physical Jesus as the Messiah through OT types and prophecies in Jn 6. They crucified him because of this claim

Both of us could be in error but both of us can not be right. The obvious fact is that your theology is not practical and that is why an actual application of God's plan of salvation in an actual event is a strong rebuke to it. You have no concept of the historical context of any scripture whatsoever and you will allow your misunderstanding of Jn 6 to cause you to deny the stucture of the narrative in Acts 10 & 11 concerning Corneilus.

Now, I am not elected to personal salvation before the foundation of the world and I do not want to be. I do not have a single verse in scripture that even hints that I am and someone else, perhaps in my immediate family, is not. And you cannot produce a verse or a promise to you, Alan H, that you are personally one of the elect.

DJC49 wrote:
Your assertions that Cornelius was a seeker after God and was the first cause of his salvation is totally without merit and absolutely unbiblical in the highest degree.

Lets review the story together.

Corneilus was an unsaved man. Yes he was. Acts 11:13,14.

God did not just save him, he told him to send for Peter.

He obeyed God as an unsaved man.

God said, let me repeat that, God said Peter would tell him what he oughest TO DO to get saved. See Acts 11: 13,14.

What did Peter say he oughtest to do?

Ac 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH in him SHALL (future tense word) receive remission of sins.

Even as Peter spake Corneilus and house BELIEVED on him and received the Holy Ghost.

If the indwelling Holy Ghost is salvation, and I have proven that he is, then salvation occurs when he is received and the word and believing the word preceeds his indwelling.

Alan H wrote:
If you believe, on the other hand, that God really is first cause, how can you reconcile that with your position? The fact is you can't...

The reason it is so difficult to converse with any of you calvs is because you have one context for any passage of scripture in the bible. That is you view it in the context of tulip and generally do not even consider it in the over all picture in the unfolding drama of redemption.

An example is Dale himself. He quoted this verse to me once. Ac 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
His presuppositions demanded he read the word "ordained" as "pre" - ordained.
Now he is in Acts 10 trying to be true to his calvinism and in doing so practically making a mockery out of the things that are written about Corneilus.
He was a totally depraved man who was seeking God, contrary to totally depraved men be able to seek God according to calvinism. He was not regenerated so he could do it. This is what I meant by Corneilus being the first cause.

Your comments suggest you have not read our conversation or your are just not keeping up. Go back and read and you will se what I said. I stand by it.

Are you just as concerned that DaleJC49 is not answering my questions? A little hypocrisy never hurt anyone, huh?

Acts 10 and 11 along with acts 8 and 2 totally destroys the tulip. A totally depraved man shows up fearing God and praying. Dale wanted to say that the pharisees did the same but he did not produce a quote where it was said they feared God and worked righteousness. I guess he forgot. But God heard his prayer while he was a seeking albeit unsaved man and sent his angel to tell him what he oughtest to do.

He gave him instructions which Cornelius obeyed. "Send for Peter".
Wallah, he understood,and obeyed, being unsaved.
He is doing things the calvs says an unregenerate man can not do.

I am not going on here. I made these points to Dale. Go back and read them but beware, to show total ignorance and a disregard for the English language as Dale has been doing is just plain embarrasing.

DJC49 wrote:
Without Christ, Corny would have REMAINED dead in trespasses and sins! Outside of the GRACE of God, he had no ability to seek God on his own, nor save himself through his devotion and sincerity.

I do admire this about you though DJC49. You are not attempting to make your points by quoting the texts, you are merely applying your theological system to it and demanding that it teach your preconceived notions.

I direct the reader to Acts 8 and the ministry of Phillip to the Samaritans.

Ac 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

They believed his message.

Ac 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

There is no doubt they received the word of God by believing it.

Ac 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

So, the apostles went to Samaria so the believers could receiver the Holy Ghost.

Ac 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 6a (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them

Ac 8:17 Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

This (the Holy Ghost) is God's gift of salvation.
Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

I lked your last question. Does your pastor study the word of God and love it. My pastor sure does. He is one of the most dedicated men I have ever met.

Your theology is up against a log jam and it cannot get past it. All of the tulip breaks down in this story of Corneilus.

We have been told here that a dead man cannot repond to God and here is an unsaved man by the testimony of no less than God himself concerned about his salvation and praying to God and God responding to his prayer. You are not having a problem with what I am saying, you are having a problem justifying an errent theology in the face of biblical refutation, but you will not repent.

Here is first cause according to the story: Ac 10:2 [A] devout [man], and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

This is what the text introduces us to.

Here is the reponse of God. You know what a response is, don't you?

4b And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

The angel was probably Jesus Christ because he called him Lord without a rebuke!

The issue here is about salvation whether you like it or not.

May I respectfully say, hogwash, to your last comments. If any isegesis is going on it is being done by you. You are trying to get us to believe that God is the first cause of Corneilus salvation experience when we are told from the beginning of the story these words: 1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. He feared God and prayed first and then God sent the angel. You are trying to mislead us to think that God was the first cause by sending his angel to draw him. This is dishonest. This is what you said.

"We see Cornelius being drawn by God; his vision of an angel; the timeliness of Peter's trance;"

The whole story reenforces the doctrinal passages that say one must believe the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is his death, burial, and resurrection which require one to hear it first and believe it before he is saved. Even God himself could not save Corneilus until that happened!

The Lone Wolf wrote:
When you are truly humbled by the Holy Spirit JD, you have absolutely NOTHING of yourself whereof to boast. It would compel you to fall prostrate on the ground and acknowledge how much of a wretched sinner you really are and thank Him for His marvelous grace that delivered you from the bondage, power and penalty of sin.
Why is it I don't see that coming from your camp JD?

An unsaved man was seeking God and God heard his prayer.Ac 10:4.

Now, what was the response of God at 3:00 PM? Did he save him? Did he regenerate him? No, he sent his angel and instructed him to send for Peter. Why? The answer is here!

5b he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.

Fast forwarding, what did Peter tell him he oughtest to do?

Corneilus speaks to Peter:

33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.

After explaing how God sent Jesus Christ, he told him what he oughtest to do. He oughtest to believe the gospel.

Ac 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

They received 3 things according to this text.

1. They received the word of God - Acts 11:1
2. They received the gift of the Spirit of God 10:45
3. They received remission of sins 10:43

Now, this verse clearly says which came first:

Ac 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

DJC49 wrote:
You're right, JD.

You know without me telling you that the ordo salutis is not the only doctrine of the tulip that is in trouble when compared to Acts 10 and 11. And if you will be honest, you know that these chapters unequivically informs us that Corneilus was regenerated BY FAITH in the gospel. Answering a couple simple questions should prove that in your mind.

One:
Why did God have the seeking and unsaved Corneilus to send for Peter?

I am going to help you with this answer from the text. Ac 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Did Peter say what came first and if so, what was first according to him?

Ac 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

If faith in the death, burial, and resurrection was not the means for receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, why is this story, a whole chapter and one half, even in our bibles?

Is it there to confuse us?

There is nothing wrong with admitting your theology is wrong and making an adjustment, DJC49, but it is wrong to ignore the truth of a text, and worse, try to conform it to your adopted theology.

No one could say that Corneilus was working for his salvation or that he had any power over God or that his will trumped the will of God. Peter said he believed God and received the Holy Ghost and was saved because God showed up at his house and all his house was saved. Now, all gentiles can be saved because God has decreed it but it takes faith in the gospel. It takes a preacher, see Ro 10:8-17 and it takes the Spirit who is everywhere. He is poured out on the gentiles. The gentiles are baptized by him meaning they are immersed by him: compare Acts 10:44-45 with Acts 11:16. Faith comes by hearing the word of God. It does not come by regeneration. The story in Acts 10 & 11 proves it. Regeneration is new life, a function of the Holy Spirit.

He thought they had received the Holy Ghost like the Jews did on Pentecost.

Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Later, in Jerusalem he had to give answer to the Jewish bekievers.

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Now note this:

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Ac 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Now, who is going to argue against what is plainly said here.

Salvation and receiving the Spirit is one and the same. Compare V 14 with V 15.

The Scriptures do not agree with that assessment either in its doctrinal passages or in it's historical narratives. The incident with Corneilius the gentile in Acts 10 & 11 is a quick study.

The narrative informs us that Corneilus did not have the quickening Spirit but he desired it and he prayed to God. God, meanwhile is preparing Peter as the vessel by which to cross the gospel into the realm of the gentiles.

It must be observed what the inspired book said about this unquickened man.

Ac 10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Here is the summation of Peter's sermon.

Ac 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever BELIEVETH in him shall receive remission of sins.

Ac 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Ac 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
____

The Lone Wolf wrote:
Changing the subject again are you. I asked you a simple question based on Galatians 5, and now you are on a rabbit trail. AGAIN!

JD, the only one who should be embarrassed is you. Are you now claiming that an unregenerate person can have these same spiritual ministry gifts. In the book of Galatians, Paul goes to great lengths to differentiate between the works of the flesh and the fruits of the Spirit. Faith is not listed as a work of the flesh.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Ac 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. (The hearing of faith)

Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ga 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

If you want to rewrite the bible to suit yourself, then you will eventually get your reward for it but do not ask us sane people to fall into a trap that is in plain view.

Why do you think Peter would have dissembled with the Judaizers and required the lkeeping of the law if he believed in pre-election salvation. It would have foolish of him.