Long Answer: http://www.bible-researcher.com/wescontext.html
The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which at the time of the writing of it was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and by his singular care and providence kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical;a so as in all controversies of religion the Church is finally to appeal unto them.b But because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them,c therefore they are to be translated into (15) the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come,d that the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship him in an acceptable manner,e and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.f
a. Mat 5:18. â€¢ b. Isa 8:20; John 5:39, 46; Acts 15:15. â€¢ c. John 5:39. â€¢ d. 1 Cor 14:6, 9, 11-12, 24, 27-28. â€¢ e. Col 3:16. â€¢ f. Rom 15:4.
A healthy life cycle of a Bible Church is to train members to "Go"...this is soul winning or evangelism. When a member wins a soul to faith in Christ they are to "Disciple" the new member to be "Indentified" ("baptizo" translated) with the triune God (worship) and "Indoctrinate" (teaching)the disciple so they can "Go", make "Disciples" so the new member are "Identified" with God and "Indoctrinated" in Christ's commands....so they will "Go"..ect. ect.
The fact that the false teachers of the Word/Faith Movement are confused with the Pentecostals...shows how little a distinction is made between them.
The distinction is understanding that there are three waves in the Charismatic Movement. Your Pentecostals are the first wave and more conservative bgan with Azuza Street Revival and faded in the 1970's. They held that speaking in tongues was one sign of being baptized by the Holy Spirit. The second wave is the Charismatics who grew in the 1970's and continued through the 1990's. They taught that speaking in tongues is the evidence one has been baptized by the Holy Spirit. The third wave is the Latter-rain movement that teaches sign and wonders through apostles and prophets in the latter days. We need to be very discering about what spirit is operating in our Churches...read 1 John 4:1-6
This is becoming an increasing problem for Christian film makers when they choose to use non-Christian actors. Let me preface that having a Christian actor is no guarantee of sinlessness...but it will at least have someone who knows how they ought to live.
We had a porn actress in "The Passion", a homosexual in "End of the Spear" and now a teenage young women in "The Nativity Story" went from portraying the virgin Mary to having a child out of wedlock.
Christian flim makers need to look not at the actor's talent and qualifications....but look at if they even have immoral lifestyles that would ruin the Christian message they seek to get out. There are good actors who are Christians or at least moral...who would like to have the opportunity to share their faith or morals in a quality film.
Faithful Remnant: I look in the yellowpages for one city and find the Baptist scene is terribly divided: First Baptist, Second Baptist(I think I've seen a Fourth or Fifth), this Baptist Church and that Baptist Church, and yet another Baptist Church...etc....what's going on here?
Jeremiah: There are 64 denominations of Baptist. The divisons range over primary issue to secondary issues. Some Baptist cooperate....other separate. Some plants 1st, 2nd, 3rd Churches in a major city to have greater out reach.
Just do a web search and you will find alot of information about the history, heritage, polity, and character of Baptist Churches.
The difference is one is a leadership position...the Elder, Overseer or Pastor that guides the congregation...but the congregation holds the leadership accountible for the operation, ministry, teaching, ect of the local Church.
An imbalance can occur when Congrational rule is purely democratic and dictates to the leadership of how they want them to run the Church. The leadership has to go to the congregation to have sermons and programs approved by the congregation. If the leadership is unsatisfactory to the leadership...they simply fire the Pastor and remove the elders at their discretion. A local Church run this way is not modeled after the New Testament.
Can someone help me to understand the difference between Elder rule of an independent church and congregational rule? The specifics would be very helpful as I've heard of some differences, but my research has shown that they are basically the same.
Walt from Michigan ________________________________________________
The difference is this:
Elder or Overseer: An older believer who is appointed in the ministry of the local Church who is entrusted with God's work and is able to teach holding firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
Congregational rule: It may seem to suggest that pure democracy reigns in Congregational churches, this is usually not really the case. It is granted, with rare exception, that God has given the government of the Church into the hands of an ordained ministry. What makes Congregationalism unique is its system of checks and balances, which constrains the authority of the minister, the lay officers, and the members. Most importantly....cont.
Lewis was asked to explain the Aslan-Christ parallel to some fifth graders in Maryland. He replied: "I did not say to myself 'Let us represent Jesus as He really is in our world by a Lion in Narnia'; I said 'Let us suppose that there were land like Narnia and that the Son of God, as he became a Man in our world, became a Lion there, and then imagine what would happen". (Lewis, 1954, 1998) http://cslewis.drzeus.net/papers/lionwitchallegory.html
The Chronicles of Narnia contain many allusions to Christian ideas...Lewis also borrows characters from Greek and Roman mythology as well as traditional British and Irish fairy tales. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Narnia
Yamil: Well if he is getting too friendly with singles then I think he does need a talk to. This is a subjective opinion since the "too friendly" phrase can be interpreted in various ways. But I suspect that if he needed to be spoken to its probably because he has crossed the line.
Jeremiah: This is the charge by the accuser and their opinion. The brother I am referring to was just taking to a guest. They are some distance apart. But the member knew he was divored because he has shared it with us. But the accuser was making a flase allegation...and also charged him with "crowding" the guest. This is a godly man who is in his 50's...who know how to be discret. So he is not in the wrong in this case. The Bible says:
Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. 1 Timothy 5:19
But the accuser was defended. The Pastor had to apologize to him the way some members had handled this. Keep James 1:19-20 in mind Yamil
Pastor Warren is a Neo-evangelical...and yes Niel...I think he would agree with Soren Kierkegaard. The ecumenical movement is based on "loving" Jesus and repudiating the basic doctrines of the Christian faith. In their zeal to unify...God, Jesus, the Bible all get thrown overboard in an effort to find "common beliefs." Biblical Christian unity is based on doctrine...the fundamentals. If the are rejected, denied, or compromised...then we need to separate (2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1) to maintain the purity of the faith from corruption (Jude).
Thank you Eldridge for sharing your stuggle too. Theory does not stack up to real experiences. I'll keep your marriage in my prayer.
I meet a man God called to the ministry. He was divorced before he was saved. He accepted Christ and married a wonderful Christian lady at a Bible collage. He was on the road with his family to raise support when someone at a Church were he was to speak found out about his past. The cancelled his appointment...and then called all the Churches in their state to cancel. He was stranded with only enough moneu for food but not for gas. A sympathic Evangelical Church helped him out and he returned home. But he never made it to the mission field. He had to find a new Church since the Church that supported him...removed him and his family from membership. This is how crazt some Churches can get about divorce and remarriage.
Good points Michael. The leadership needs to find out what is going on and deal with the problem with the marriage. Discipline needs to meted out the one or both parties...if they refuse to fix the marriage and receive counsel from the Church. (Matthew 18:15-20). Every effort must be made to protect the innocent...and make sure there is not stigma attached to them if indeed they are the victim of an unwaranteed divorce. That the victim is healed...and if at all possible to reconcile..until it is clear that there is no hope of reconciliation. That if the member desires to remarry...to make sure it is to a godly Christian lady.
Michael: Kind of strains ones faith in that if the church doesn't want me does Jesus no longer want me too?
Jeremiah: It is called "spiritual abuse." A good book on the subject is
The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse. David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen. Bethany House Publishers, Minneapolis, MN, 1991, 234 pages. http://www.csj.org/pub_csj/csjbookreview/csjbkrev101subtle.htm
Though authors do mention psychology and mentions associations I disagree with...there is benefit from the presentation.
Also this will wet your curiosity:
IDENTIFYING THE ABUSIVE SYSTEM http://www.cephasministry.com/shepherding_spiritual_abuse.html
Posted 7/21/2003 3:12 PM This evangelist has a 'Purpose' By Cathy Lynn Grossman, USA TODAY
Warren is part of the ultra-conservative Southern Baptist Convention, and all his senior staff sign on to the SBC's doctrines, such as the literal and infallible Bible and exclusion of women as senior pastors. Yet Warren's pastor-training programs welcome Catholics, Methodists, Mormons, Jews and ordained women.
"I'm not going to get into a debate over the non-essentials. I won't try to change other denominations. Why be divisive?" he asks, citing as his model Billy Graham, "a statesman for Christ ministering across barriers."
Warren does draw absolute lines theologically. It's Jesus or hell. "Every human being is created by God, not everyone is a child of God," he writes in Life.
But that line is buried in the book. Rather than threaten sinners with fire and brimstone, Warren says, "we believe in attraction evangelism. We believe in loving people into the Kingdom."
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work. 2 John 1:11-12 NIV