Neil wrote:
Non sequitur: John Y was asking me about false lyrics, not lyrics devised by men (including rhyming English paraphrases of the Hebrew Psalms). Not all words of human composition are necessarily false, or we must discard all the Reformed Confessions. Neither are all paraphrases necessarily true (as critics of the Living Bible tell us).

___________

Mike wrote:
And we all know there is to be no emotion displayed in matters of praise. This a is serious business. Ever see a painting of a smiling Jesus? Well there you go.

John Yurich USA wrote:
What hymns do you consider to have false doctrines in the lyrics?

Those ordained and authorised By God Himself are of course the Psalms recorded by God in Scripture, for His worship.

Music does not praise God. Nor has it ever praised and worshipped God. After all what is music really for? Is it to get God foot tapping?

The OT ceremonial type of worship has long gone as far as the NT church is concerned.

Michael Hranek wrote:
But what is the tune/melody arrangement, what key was it written in?

Rufus wrote:
Do you mean to say psalms + hymns + spiritual songs or are you really saying psalms only?

God in His providence provides all our needs to worship Him.
___________

The history of the church has gone from Psalms only to the puerile junk we get from the Liberals today.

"Charnock [Works, Vol.1, p.298] says that “worship is an act of the understanding, applying itself to the knowledge of the excellency of God, and actual thoughts of His majesty.... It is also an act of the will, whereby the soul adores and reverenceth His majesty, is ravished with His amiableness, embraceth His goodness, enters itself into an intimate communion with this most lovely object, and pitcheth all his affections on Him”. Acceptable worship must be Spiritual worship, “authorised by the Holy Spirit, constrained by the Holy Spirit, offered in the Holy Spirit” [J. Murray, Collected Writings, Vol. 1, ‘Worship’, p. 167]. James Begg [in The use of Organs] claims that “the worship of God is the most sacred thing with which His creatures have to do. It is more sacred than the government of the Church, more sacred even than Christian doctrine, for these are, in a sense, merely instrumental in bringing us into proper relations to God; and if it is true in anything whatsoever that God’s will must be the only rule, it is especially true of His own worship”." (Rev H.M.Cartwright)

"Emotional" worship = NO!

Neil wrote:
Psalmodists insist on a radical change in the singing mode of worship for the NT church.

But carry on Neil with your support of 'rap' and continue to justify before men these Liberal, all singing, all dancing, all rapping churches if you will. And let the responsibility be of your ilk, that their praise be unBiblical, misguided and focus upon the theatrical entertainment of sinners - rather than the worship of God.

Neil wrote:
"psalm singer" misses the point, as have other Psalmody advocates here

The Reformation removed music and instruments in the same way as they removed icons etc.

"EUSEBIUS "Of old at the time those of the circumcision were worshipping with symbols and types it was not inappropriate to send up hymns to God with the psalterion and cithara and to do this on Sabbath days... We render our hymn with a living psalterion and a living cithara with spiritual songs. The unison voices of Christians would be more acceptable to God than any musical instrument. Accordingly in all the churches of God, united in soul and attitude, with one mind and in agreement of faith and piety we send up a unison melody in the words of the Psalms." (commentary on Psalms 91:2-3)"

John UK wrote:
C) And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac,.... Genesis 22:2 KJV
(which breaks the law, thou shalt not kill.)

B) who mentioned lyrics and music?

A) I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
1 Corinthians 14:12-15 KJV

Notice that Paul endorses praying and singing "with/in the spirit" meaning that language which is given by God and not necessarily understood by the pray-er/singer.

A) Praise is for God not just mortals. Also your suggestion implies that the Bible is written in a language which congregations cannot understand or comprehend. That is not so! And as John 16:13 states the Holy Spirit's task is to guide His people into all truth. Don't cut the Spirit out of God's work, it is HE who will teach the Word.

B) "Lyrics/music" You are the one who appears to have diverted this debate to new dimensions.

C) NO! God does NOT TEACH THE BREAKING OF HIS LAW with this verse. He demonstrated Abraham's faith in God and his obedience as a truly faithful believer. (Exegesis)

John UK wrote:
A) Suppose that God in his word commanded his people, or some of his people, to sing in a language they did not understand, and which required an interpreter to make it edifying for the others?
I can assure you that they were NOT singing psalms when they were doing this.

B) Jesus taught his people not to prepare their speeches when brought before rulers, for their Father would give them the words at just the right time, this becoming known as extempore

C) the Lord has sometimes commanded his people to break even his own law found in scripture. Sola scriptura - not always!

B) "Extempore lyrics and music"????

"But can any man in the possession of sober reason believe that the apostle commanded all the Colossians or all the Ephesians to make or compose songs of praise? How few, if any, of them could have complied with such a requisition! Even in the present age, when the advantages of education are more general than in apostolic times, this would be a task not one in a thousand among Christians could perform. How preposterous to suppose that the Apostle exhorts the disciples of Christ in general to perform a duty so far beyond the capacity of the great majority! It is unreasonable to suppose that a duty is commanded of such a nature that so few could possibly perform it. Clearly the Apostle is exhorting to the diligent use of such matter as they already had in their possession as a means of mutual edification. If his command to "Sing psalms and hymns," etc., can be construed as meaning "Make ye psalms and hymns and songs," then it can be claimed with equal show of reason that Christ’s command to "Search the Scriptures" meant "make, write or compose Scriptures." (Rev J.T.Chalmers)

"Consider the case of Nadab and Abihu. These young men were stricken down for offering "strange fire" which the Lord "had not commanded." It has been suggested that these young men might have been numbered among the advanced thinkers of their day, the patrons of progress and apostles of liberty, who imagined that a dash of liberalism would greatly improve and enrich the somewhat bald ritual of Jehovah. They failed to see why one kind of fire was not as good as another. The Divine appointment of one kind was a distinction without a difference. But God saw a difference; one was commanded, the other was not, and the penalty of their presumption was instant death. Thus was kindled upon the very threshold of Jehovah’s temple a beacon "to send its lurid light athwart the centuries as a warning to all succeeding worshippers of the danger of tampering with divine ordinances by subtracting, supplementing or supplanting them by human authority." (Rev J.T.Chalmers)

Neil wrote:
1) I'm not talking about the invisible church

2) Evasion; you were claiming that Common Sense is a "normal function." I want proof, which ..
3) ..does not do. I know that sin exists, thank you.
One would think that Common Sense could authenticate itself.

2) It has been an accepted normal function in conversation between humans for centuries...
"Origin:
1525–35; translation of Latin sēnsus commūnis, itself translation of Greek koinḕ aísthēsis" (Dictionary)

Word Origin & History

common sense
"14c., originally the power of uniting mentally the impressions conveyed by the five physical senses, thus "ordinary understanding, without which one is foolish or insane" (L. sensus communis , Gk. koine aisthesis ); meaning "good sense" is from 1726. Also, as an adj., commonsense"

Neil wrote:
1) Give a historical example of a REAL church (as you call it)

2) all sorts of people, made in God's image, have believed manifestly false things, starting w/ Adam & Eve.

3) If you concede that humans can ever err via their senses...
...then Common Sense cannot be trusted, or else does not exist.

2) Yes. Sin exists.

Neil wrote:
1) As I said before, churches erred very badly during the Apostles' lifetimes (as for example with circumcision & Communion), so their being even closer in time didn't help

2) Second, "common sense" is a casual form of the Bandwagon Fallacy

3) rationalize the rap style in worship

2) Common sense is a normal function of human beings who were made in God's image. I have often noticed how great "worldly" minds do not possess it.

Dic.
"Common sense ::
–noun
sound practical judgment that is independent of specialized knowledge, training, or the like; normal native intelligence.
Origin:
1525–35; translation of Latin sēnsus commūnis, itself translation of Greek koinḕ aísthēsis"

Neil wrote:
Irrelevant because of Special Pleading. No Protestant can consistently appeal to the practices of the post-Apostolic church

Mike wrote:
God dumped the use of accompaniment such as David used when he wrote/sang them, because God didn't like them anymore, because Jesus came to Earth

John UK wrote:
Now what is meant by "all Israel"?
And should we use intruments in worship?