Appreciated your thoughts. A perfect example of not understanding the seriousness of oaths and vows was
cookie lacking example. I was shocked at the lack of the fear of God in what was stated.

That is the kind of thing warned of in the NT Scripture. I believe in the text you mention Jacob wanted to call God to witness what Esau said and he agreed to it at the time. As far as Esau was concerned it meant if I fail to keep my word, God is the witness against me. God forgives sin but chastens his own, see Hebrews 12:5 to the end of the chapter where this incident is spoken of regarding Esau. God differentiates not based on men's works but Christ's on their behalf. One can choose not to vow.
I believe we lack the fear of God, as we ought. I also believe He is patient knowing we do greatly lack the normal means of grace, but if the Lord condescends to teach us he will expect more from us.

ladybug wrote:
For those interested, this is from Jonathan Edwards, 'signs of true revival' - http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=2586

A friend of mine gave me the book 'Tokens for Children' it was a book about children during one of the plagues in New England it was an amazing account of God's work in the hearts of the very young up to a young adult of 19. What was amazing was how it put older Christians to stand amazed at the clear working of God in the hearts of such young children. Reading the testimonies of their parents and pastors, who looked upon the obviously a work of God. One of the youths was a nephew of Cotton Mather, if I recall. A deeply profound 19 year old.

GS and Mike Psalm 103 was most blessed to me when God heard my cries for my own sick child, a number of years ago now.

Frank wrote:
Is your point that it is okay for folks to use vows and oaths under certain conditions as long as they don't violate those oaths.

pennned wrote:
I'll point out that presbytarians consider baby baptism to be the new circumcision ... if one only sees legitimate gov in the church hierarchy (if that is indeed true, which I don't know)

Allie wrote:
Hi Mourner, Israel was a theocracy and we are not.

Tennessee wise wrote:
Our power does not come from men but God. This is why the great Revivals came we did not run to the government we ran to God .. I would suggest every Christian should listen to Martyn Lloyd Jones series on revival and you can see how God works to restore the land.

Do you recall this in what you heard?

Frank wrote:
Okay

Allie wrote:
I think ..most churches are not truly preaching the gospel...will not preach against the national sins and call to repentance..

After reading a number of posts, the Scripture came to mind: 2Ch 7:14 "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

I have heard this text used in sermons a number of times in my life with the emphasis on seeking God in humility and prayer. But what of the subject 'if my people'? The context is a kingdom under God as a nation. Having come out of Ur of the Chaldees in Abram, whose father worshiped the moon god and most likely the other multiplicity of gods; God began with a family who became a nation that He brought up as his peculiar people. It was prayed by Solomon whose father king David began to establish the one true religion *instituted by Jehovah regarding His worship* as given to David as his prophet.

Because of national religious pluralism, you can make a sweeping statement about the ministry in general, but it should not be the case in a rightly ordered church.

About oaths and vows in Matthew and James as regards swearing - it is in the name of anyone or thing other than God for to forswear is to violate the terms of oaths and vows set down by Scripture. God is unchangeable and he states
Lev 19:12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. Isa_65:16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain

WCF Chapter 22 it is on Lawful Oaths and Vows. Consider what it says in the light of Scripture.

My thoughts for commenting were on
1 Cor. 7 Paul's addressing a woman's vow that needed her father's approval to be binding, that's Paul's NT take in agreement with your quoted text from Numbers 30.

I believe this is the sermon I was referring to http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=1218151234311 otherwise it was the one before it, but I think it was this one. You might like his 'Bossy Wives, Effeminate Men'. I listened to that with my eldest and it was hard for sinners to hear that know better.

Taken from Jim's link on another thread: "Today study, the total number of mosques in the United States increased 42 % between 1990 and 2000, 2nd only to the growth of Christian "mega churches."

I did know where the comment came from following the various threads. Patriarchial movement?

Question so now we can removed both the third and the fourth Commandment? On what Scriptural warrant?

What I listened to, addressed what you quote here from Numbers. That it was Adams sin, that was imputed for exactly the reason you quote below. Eve was first in the transgression, yes, but if Adam had interposed and not joined her the result would not have been original sin imputed to posterity for Eve did not have the headship that allowed her to act without Adam.

B. McCausland wrote:
Yet, perhaps it would be handy to grab any 'light' means of communication to share a meaningful biblical insight at the end of the year to encourage others in their way.

Asa had trusted God in great straights and then gave into his own management of the situation. When a prophet came to him the first time he responded in knowledgeable zeal, the next time he imprisoned the prophet and oppressed some of the people. Jehoshaphat made an alliance with Ahab's house and generational consequence followed. Yet when he was confronted when, 'Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD. Nevertheless there are good things found in thee, in that thou hast taken away the groves out of the land, and hast prepared thine heart to seek God. ' Note his response in the rest of the chapter.

Name wrote:
Monstrous. Regiment.

Frank wrote:
IOW, she should be home baking cookies.

I was thinking about you and Lurker because of what I just listened to. It covered is some depth the topics of Adam's imputed sin and our first parents.

Eve, as the mother of all living was the representative of our human nature and Adam of our human person. Eve was like the wax and Adam the stamp or imprint of our person-hood. Jesus Christ was born of a woman and so with a human nature, but his person was one with the Father John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

kjg wrote:
In a figurative sense-one hand holds an olive branch while the other hand holds a sword. Is this still true today-in these times? Also, I came across the term "Black Pope".

Heard a lecture recently that spoke of the two horns of the above mention beast that had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon, that stated the horns represented the ecclesiastical and civil branches of the Papal hierarchy, (white pope/black pope).

Apparently I missed your point, sorry about that. From my experience, I'd rather they didn't encourage any under my charge to view movies; which I believe such an illustration would do. If a parent disapproves of such and the ministry isn't clear, it could cause family strife. It may make a true point but it wouldn't help me to train up my children in the way they should go. It would seem to me the ministry would have had to watch it to use the illustration and that would commend what I disapprove.

sf from tx wrote:
I'm not familiar with either but I will give the sermon a listen and plan to read the booklet. Have a great day