"You can debate and talk to people all day, you can set a good example, but eventually without access to ultimate power, you cannot pull these peoples' minds over from the kingdom of Satan. God has demonstrated little spurts and trickles of power through my vessel as I alluded to concerning the casting out demons earlier, but I must have the full unabashed surge to conduct some real warfare against the powers of darkness and workers of witchcraft and sorcery in my midst. I must be the Moses against Jannes and Jambres."

The Scripture says:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, ***have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?***

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: ***depart from me, ye that work iniquity.***" (Matt.7:21-23)

"2. All men by nature deserve the eternal condemnation of God for the guilt of Adam’s sin, the loss of original righteousness, the corruption of one’s own soul, and for one’s own personal sins. There is nothing that man who is dead in his trespasses and sins can do to save himself.

3. God out of His infinite mercy and grace sent His divine Son to fulfill all the righteous demands of His broken law and to atone for the sins of all the ungodly who embrace by faith alone Jesus Christ as their only hope of eternal salvation. It is not your faith, your repentance, your love, or your new obedience that saves you. It is the object of your faith that saves you i.e. Christ and His perfect righteousness. It is not the strength of your faith that grants judicial forgiveness for all your sins (past, present, and future), but the object of your faith that does so i.e. Jesus Christ.

"God says all men are naturally inclined (due to the corruption of their soul) to doing what is right in their own eyes: “All the ways of man are clean in his own eyes” (Proverbs 16:2). “The way of a fool is right in his own eyes” (Proverbs 12:15). That is why the Lord commands us not to lean upon our own mere understanding: Read Proverbs 3:5-7.

The Jews of Paul’s time were very zealous for God says Paul, but not according to a true knowledge of Scripture (Romans 10:2). Paul even says about himself that he sincerely believed that he was obligated before God to persecute Christians (Acts 26:9-11).

4. Or consider the deception that is prophesied to come upon the world through the son of perdition, the man of sin, the papal antichrist in 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12. They fall into self-deception because they took pleasure in unrighteousness and did not love the truth (even the gospel of salvation).

But the elect we are told by Christ cannot (in fact it is impossible that they) be absolutely deceived by the lying signs and wonders of false teachers (Matthew 24:24)."

"It is a laughable thing indeed when the lesser and weaker deem themselves worthy to judge the superior and the stronger. While the inferior have sat in pews and recited dead confessions to one another I have selflessly served my neighbhors and the poorest of the poor on a daily basis. I have never fornicated. I have never commited adultery. I have never participated in acts of sodomy under the cloak of marriage. I have never struck an opponent. I depise money and wealth. I have done good to my enemies. I have cast out demons and devils. I eat sparse and bare food and never for pleasure. My relationships with women are pure and chaste. I do not discriminate or engage in any form of abominable racism. I have sold all of my goods and given them to the poor. I have no private property. I do no neglect the homeless."

I can only say you have won the heart of Abigail who says, "Astonishingly commendable, Spiritual!! Blessings to you!"

Do you not see based upon your own comments below how confused you are in using the name Spiritual?

Before you begin speaking about your sinless, righteous and holy nature since the Spirit has filled you, as you claimed earlier, I would recommend you take another look at the Bible.

It is becoming obvious that Abigail has been teaching you on this site a lot of false doctrines, and you have bought them blindly. If you do not even understand the basic arguments of the gospel between the Reformers and Rome, you need to do more study. To side with Rome on the subject, and then claim you are somehow justified by your purity and holy nature now, is seriously heretical.

You don't have to believe a word I say on the topic of justification by faith, but you should at least learn what were the basic arguments between Rome and the Reformers before preaching holiness.

You and Abigail wonder why we think you guys have lost your way when you post the Scriptures...but all you have to do is listen to your commentary before or after your posting to understand that we really don't understand what "spirit" you are filled with presently.

A another big error promoted by Sects is that they deny having Rome as their foundational mother during birth. There is not a fundamental Pentecostal that will attribute there foundation to Rome, but those of us who study history know that by your fruits we know from which you were born.

It might sound special to our audience to make that think you were born out of some sort of "spirit" and "holiness" movement, but in reality the doctrines which your founders and leaders practice then are the same that are followed today...only with a basket of English translations to pick from based upon your commercial motives.

Scofield brought Rome's doctrine into his Bible translation, and you guys (alone with the Bible Socieities) took over the true Churches job to approve Scripture for Christ's people.

Faithful ministers of God were replaced with daughters of Romish doctrine, and Sects flourished under Bible Societies and Scofield's work in America.

Come on now...those are buzz words that gets the Roman Catholics all wound up, and sends the Jesuits into an underground pursuit of Presbyterians. You know we don't believe in the church controlling and running the State and Church like the Vatican does, and Queen/King in the Angelican circles.

By the way, can you tell me who is the head of Vatican State? Is it the same person who is head of the Roman Catholic Church? Is that Biblical?

Was one man to be appointed the head of the church and state in Scripture? Hmmm, I wonder what His name is?

"He suggests man ought to do some good works perhaps, because it is God's will, but in reality they are of no importance and of no consequence in our eternal salvation."

Spiritual, may I ask if the church you attend has a website link so I can study the teachings of your Pastor. What you are saying is exactly what the Roman Catholic Church argued against Luther himself.

Your claim is at the heart of the argument between Luther and Rome. They claimed that man had to do penance and good works to be saved, and Luther argued it was faith alone, provided by God's grace alone, in Christ's sole righteousness. It was not by works that any man should boast.

Why do you seek to overturn what Luther taught on salvation by faith, not by works?

Do you not see the gospel of Jesus Christ? You are saved by His alone righteousness. It is imputed to you by the Father in a judicial act of grace, and the Father sees your righteousness through Christ alone.

I knew you were still a good old fashion Bible believer and rejected all this crazy Pentecostalism overtaking the world churches.

Stay the course for Christ...

Thanks for both your comments on the two threads. Very helpful.

I could not agree with Gil more on this issues of Roman Catholics and Pentecostals as they agree in so much that just the topic/debate over whether unknown tongues is the test for proving the Holy Spirit is their only controversy.

From all of my observation of the Pentecostal men and women, around the world, I can say they are just so far off base with Scripture understanding. Sure, they can quote one liners, or paste them consistently as we see here, but really there lack of knowledge of Scripture is the most severe of most Sects. The Roman Catholics would be second in most cases, but I'm trying to compare more orthodox, practicing Pentecostals against Roman Catholics.

What really makes me concerned is how firm and sure Abigail and Spiritual are convinced in their sinlessness and self righteousness...almost bordering on a Christ like nature. I have never really seen this even with Roman Catholic Priests and Nuns, or monks, who swear a vow of celebacy, poverty and purity.

I hope your wife is feeling better and that you are holding up ok. After coming back from Russia, and seeing some of our poor brethren there, I see their suffering which makes me feel more humbled and concerned.

Yes, I am very pleased that you have come to this view as well and the Lord has revealed to you His omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence in all areas of life through His grace and mercy. No man can come to the Father but by the Son! It is so simple.

Reading these two Pentecostals on here, Abigail and Spiritual, it is so sad to see how Rome has grabbed their hearts and minds in doctrine and worship. I know that the Lord will show them, if it be His will, so no sense being so overly frustrated with these people.

You know how He brought you unto a saving knowledge of Christ, and we can only pray that He will do the same for these two Pentecostals, and others caught up in this movement.

"The English Standard Version actually, considered by your own idols to be the most accurate translation to date."

Actually, the names you listed below, including Sproul and Piper, are not even close to whom I would consider authorities on Scripture texts.

Nevertheless, I firmly attest that I am not a Pentecostal and do not make my informed decisions based upon speaking in unknown tongues, nor in how the "spirit" moves me like yourself. I assume your chosing of a Bible text is based upon how you feel, and what the unknown tongues say to you?

If you want to learn from one whom I believe is qualified to explain what accurate about the English Standard Version (e.g., the evangelical standard version), listen CAREFULLY to this sermon:

Posted on: 8/6/2007
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=860711134

In this sermon you will learn 3 important points covered in the 4th Century on how the Canon was defined and Canonical Text approved.

"Are you making an issue over translations of the Bible?"

It is unfortunate that the minute you attack a version of the Bible used by the Pentecostals they get worried. We all know from our history that the Pentecostal movement has its roots in Roman Catholicism and higher Criticism.

The reformers were the original translators of the Greek, Aramic and Hebrew into English for our studies. Without Christ appointment of them in His divine providence, we would all be learning the bible in Latin from Rome.

"Given the impact in the theological colleges and the wider church of the new Higher Criticism in the climate of Darwinism and advancing humanism it is not surprising that the new understanding of Bible prophecy spread as quickly as it did. The Scofield Reference Bible appeared in the 1920s and was greatly influential especially among Pentecostals. Full of scholarly footnotes, it incorporated Futurist theology into its Dispensationalist scheme in such a way that few were able to distinguish it all from the inspired Scriptures."

http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles_pdf/foundations_underattack.pdf

"Looks like Rome got something right for once! I always wondered how the occasional St. Francis of Assisi or Mother Teresa or St. Frances de Sales or St. Girolamo Savonarola burst forth from that apostate church. Good to see their is some truth to be found everywhere."

Abigail writes:

"In prior times, churches had a mourner's bench where the seekers knelt, prayed, and wept because their evil transgressions against a holy God. They prayed, mourned, and wept until they felt the cleansing, healing, forgiving power of God sweep over their being and consequently they arose from the altar transformed with newness of life."

"Before Billy Graham has finished, hundreds leave their seats to unite with the person Jesus Christ. Even priests of Rome find their way to the mourners’ bench. The suasions of Rome are no match for the Gospel. . . . The Pope must look to his legions because he can no longer look to the Gospel." Life Magazine

" "For one who speaks in a tongue speaks NOT TO MEN BUT TO GOD; for NO ONE UNDERSTANDS HIM, but he UTTERS MYSTERIES in the Spirit. On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue BUILDS UP HIMSELF, but the one who prophesies builds up the church." 1 cor. 14:2-3"

Can you please tell me what Bible Version you are using for these beliefs you have developed?

The quote above is unknown to Bible Gateway version so far, but is very close to the American Standard Version. Is that the version you are quoting?

"Notice how all of his followers have continued to attack me for living a sinless, godly, unspotted life in this present world by the wonder-working power of Christ."

Scripture says:

"What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." (Rom.3:9-11)

Westminster Assembly ministers, which was approved by the Church of Scotland, says in the Larger Catechism:

"Q.149. Is any man able perfectly to keep the commandments of God?
A. No man is able, either of himself (Jam.iii.2, Jn.xv.5, Rom.viii.3), or by any grace received in this life, perfectly to keep the commandments of God (Eccl.vii.20, 1Jn.i.8 & 10, Gal.v.17, Rom.vii.18-19); but doth daily break them in thought (Gen.vi.5, Gen.viii.21), word, and deed (Rom.iii.9-19, Jam.iii.2-13)."

This confusion blurs the biblical distinction between justification (an objective judicial act) and sanctification (a subjective moral transformation), thus removing the judicial nature of justification. Just as our sin was imputed to Christ, so His righteousness is imputed (not infused) to the believing sinner.

"Spiritual" writes:

"In the first citation, he discusses the imputatation of Christ's righteousness on the believer, a satanic doctrine I have aggressively fought against on these forums."

The protestant doctrine of justification and sanctification is clearly defined, but those who blindly follow Rome on the subject call it a "satanic doctrine".

"You anti-pentecostals have a problem with the Holy Spirit of God. It is a serious error to deny the wonderful work of the Holy Spirit in our day."

Christian, I do not want to offend you. I have read your previous posts on the struggles you have faced and am nothing but thankful for your relationship with the Christ Jesus. Do not let us cause a stumbling block in your faith.

I adddress you as a dear brother and only ask that you be careful not to be swept away with this modern movement.

We are called to put on the whole counsel of God. This includes all doctrine, discipline, government and worship founded upon Scripture.

We cannot promote holiness by speaking in unknown tonuges, yet deny basic fundamentals. How can one be defined as holy and pure in Christ's church, but deny the appointed government of Christ's church? How can one promote holiness and purity by speaking in tongues, but deny the proper worship of God in spirit and ***in truth***. Can you really deny the true gospel of justification and salvation in Christ, and yet be considered holy because one speaks in unknown tonuges?