Unprofitable Servant wrote:
Have to scurry off to work.
The subject is too deep and complex, in my opinion, to cover in a forum with the character limit imposed. (not complaining about it, just acknowledging it is there)
You are much appreciated and your posts are enjoyed. Will have to just agree to disagree on what really amounts to interpretation of what the Scriptures teach. Thanks.

Rom 9
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

1 Corinthians 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

How is Romans 9 for such a specific group of people when Paul is using analogies in the Bible to explain election? Are you saying Paul is wrong to use specific people in the Bible to demonstrate God’s purpose according to Election for all? Who is the specific people in Romans 9? In your hermeneutics is it the pot/vessel that fits itself for destruction? That would make the whole illustration not make sense. I’m pretty sure the way I am reading it is correct. We might not like the implications of what it says though. He is the potter and we are the clay. The illustration is clear. Does Romans 9 say that God makes Vessels unto dishonor? Yes it does.

The verse you used says that God loves some while they were yet sinners, but this love is toward ‘US’ in that verse not all. This can be seen also in this verse.

Jeremiah 31:3

3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: THEREFORE with lovingkindness have I DRAWN THEE.

Ivan Karamazov wrote:
So you are telling me god created people to be damned? Hmm...that's nice

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonor?

The Bible answers your questions. God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy.

Making up your own God that is not the God of the Bible is idolatry.

Shane wrote:
My son was born this morning. Healthy and strong. Momma is good. She's a warrior.
I praise the Lord for his blessings.
I thank the brothers and sisters for their prayers.
God bless.

Hosea 9:15
All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I HATED THEM: for the WICKEDNESS of THEIR DOINGS I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

Is God’s love effectual?

Hebrews 12:6

6 For WHOM the LORD LOVETH HE CHASTENETH, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Does God chasten rebrobates? No He gives them up!

If one receives not chastisement what is he according to the Bible? Hebrews 12:8 answers the question as clear as day.

Who is it that Jesus says shall be loved of the Father? Notice Jesus’s words: I WILL LOVE HIM. Why would He use the word WILL?
John 14
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and HE THAT LOVETH ME SHALL BE LOVED of my Father, and I WILL LOVE HIM, and will manifest myself to him.

Did God love the whole world when He left so many without hope in the world other than Israel?

Paul when explaining election Used Jacob and Esau to explain the plan of election. Who does God say He loved and who did He hate? Jacob have I loved and Esau have I? Loved less? No.

Dr. Tim wrote:
Honest question Kev: does the verse say the men were foreordained to sin, or only that the penalty for their sin was predetermined?

Ephesians 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO GOODWORKS, which God hath BEFORE ORDAINED that we should WALK IN THEM.

Read it carefully Tim

Jude 4
4 For there are CERTAIN MEN crept in unawares, who were BEFORE of OLD ORDAINED to THIS CONDEMNATION, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into LASCIVIOUSNESS, and denying the ONLY LORD God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Look at the wording CERTAIN MEN. That is not any old person but certain men. Also not the certain men were ordained to a specific condemnation marked by the words "this condemnation." so you have certain men to a specific condemnation. Now read the rest honestly and see what you think it says. Since you asked honestly, I hope you try to at least see what I’m saying.

Just a guy wrote:
And you thought Mississippians were dumb😄.....

Just a guy wrote:
Key from US....I'll give you 2% also for thinking of the idea.

Dr. Tim wrote:
The Grahams were predestined to be pope huggers. Please hand me the yellow Play Doh.

But the popes selling indulgences surely is a fulfilment of this verse:

Jude 4

Just a guy wrote:
Not a bad idea! Once I get to know my other mississippi friends well of course.
Hmmmm we could call it Mc-oppossum. It'll make some heavy competition for McDonald's.

I never could figure out what an opposum is though

Possum ceviche & possum tacos!