Unprofitable Servant wrote: Have to scurry off to work. The subject is too deep and complex, in my opinion, to cover in a forum with the character limit imposed. (not complaining about it, just acknowledging it is there) You are much appreciated and your posts are enjoyed. Will have to just agree to disagree on what really amounts to interpretation of what the Scriptures teach. Thanks.
Thanks for pointing out what you believe I was in error about. I will study Romans 9 and ask the opinion of someone who has more knowledge then I do to see if I am in error. I appreciate your comments as well thanks bro.
What does God have to do to harden a sinner but to give them up. The wickedness that befalls man is from his wicked heart this is the source. But God definetly gives some up to a reprobate mind taking away His restraining Grace. God shows mercy on whom He will show mercy by chastening some but not all. This is the clear doctrine of reprobation. God is the potter we are the clay. He is not the author of sin but we do know from such passages as in Job that God can keep the devil from touching His people and He can also have the devil try His people as well or anyone else for that matter. The Bible teaches that it is the arm of the Lord that upholds us and without Christ we can do nothing. I donâ€™t think my thinking is off but thanks for pointing it out.
I think Romans 9 is clear on how God works in election and I believe it is the same for all people groups. I know God chose His people in Christ since before the foundation of the world and knows each one of His own and will call them out according to His great mercies and not based on anything within us.
Well sorry if I seemed to talk down to you. I think my reaction is from some of your comments where you used the word predestination in varying ways and linked them with the â€˜Presbyterian cult.â€™ I definitely donâ€™t agree with Presbyterians but I still believe I have many Presbyterian brothers even though they are wrong maybe my tone is from many different comments where I am responding to the tone of others. I should maybe be a little more gracious but I donâ€™t want to mince my word either. I stand firm but I try not to be rude. If my comment was rude I am sorry. I hope you considered my other comment to you
I think you misunderstood what I was saying because I though you though I was discouraging you from preaching. â€” Hey Observer it sounded like you have made some Gospel tracts up yourself. It is hard to find good biblical tracts. I have been using some that I print out. If you wouldnt mind sharing your tracts I am always looking for good tracts to distribute. You could email them to me if you want.
So you believe that Godâ€™s purpose in election is different for the Jews than the Gentiles and God operates in a whole different manner with His purpose according to Election for all the inhabitants of the earth?
Rom 9 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Does not the verse above explain that what comes after is how God works in election? Or is what comes after only how he treats Jews? I see Romans 9 is how God works in election and not just for Jews. â€” That is a great observation Observer thanks for that.
You are misunderstanding what we are saying Dr. Tim. The Gospel is an open invitation for all but we know that this canâ€™t be received unless the Spirit gives ears to hear and a heart to believe. Anyone who does find themselves truly believing is because God was at the same time seeking them. Causing all the events in their lives to lead to the very day that He would give them a new heart to believe in His Son. We donâ€™t limit the Gospel we are told to sow everywhere because we know God will use the Gospel to call out His people.
1 Corinthians 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
We canâ€™t expect the natural man to receive the testimony that Jesus Christ is the Son of God unless the Spirit does a work in this man, this is spiritually discerned. The seed you cast will do nothing unless the Holy Spirit prepares the soil/heart of the person and yes God uses the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe and not a 1,2,3 method but preaching for for the power of God is the Word of God. â€” Ok thanks John apology accepted. Letâ€™s try to avoid some of these topics that bring strife. I hope you see I wasnâ€™t being a false witness either.
Hey there John I took the time to post up a comment of yours and address it. You didnâ€™t have to say you were wrong but at least admit that at the very least it could easily be misunderstood and apologize for calling me a false witness. You know you could still say sorry for the misunderstanding. â€”- Christopher Iâ€™m not angry with your response the one where you took â€˜thatâ€™s easy Christopherâ€™ wrong. ;D
You know I meant to say that it would be easy to show from scripture what you asked about.
Hey there UPS hope all is well nice to see you posting.
How is Romans 9 for such a specific group of people when Paul is using analogies in the Bible to explain election? Are you saying Paul is wrong to use specific people in the Bible to demonstrate Godâ€™s purpose according to Election for all? Who is the specific people in Romans 9? In your hermeneutics is it the pot/vessel that fits itself for destruction? That would make the whole illustration not make sense. Iâ€™m pretty sure the way I am reading it is correct. We might not like the implications of what it says though. He is the potter and we are the clay. The illustration is clear. Does Romans 9 say that God makes Vessels unto dishonor? Yes it does.
The verse you used says that God loves some while they were yet sinners, but this love is toward â€˜USâ€™ in that verse not all. This can be seen also in this verse.
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: THEREFORE with lovingkindness have I DRAWN THEE.
Iâ€™m not sure what you are saying that the verse you gave says, you need to elaborate.
Hosea 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I HATED THEM: for the WICKEDNESS of THEIR DOINGS I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.
Is Godâ€™s love effectual?
6 For WHOM the LORD LOVETH HE CHASTENETH, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Does God chasten rebrobates? No He gives them up!
If one receives not chastisement what is he according to the Bible? Hebrews 12:8 answers the question as clear as day.
Who is it that Jesus says shall be loved of the Father? Notice Jesusâ€™s words: I WILL LOVE HIM. Why would He use the word WILL? John 14 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and HE THAT LOVETH ME SHALL BE LOVED of my Father, and I WILL LOVE HIM, and will manifest myself to him.
Did God love the whole world when He left so many without hope in the world other than Israel?
Paul when explaining election Used Jacob and Esau to explain the plan of election. Who does God say He loved and who did He hate? Jacob have I loved and Esau have I? Loved less? No.
Read IGN Emerkans verses below. Does not biblical understanding determine who the â€˜worldâ€™ is in those verses? Why not in otherplaces?
Dr. Tim wrote: Honest question Kev: does the verse say the men were foreordained to sin, or only that the penalty for their sin was predetermined?
Look at another verse that talks about the same subject but on the other end of the spectrum Tim.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO GOODWORKS, which God hath BEFORE ORDAINED that we should WALK IN THEM.
Read it carefully Tim
Jude 4 4 For there are CERTAIN MEN crept in unawares, who were BEFORE of OLD ORDAINED to THIS CONDEMNATION, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into LASCIVIOUSNESS, and denying the ONLY LORD God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Look at the wording CERTAIN MEN. That is not any old person but certain men. Also not the certain men were ordained to a specific condemnation marked by the words "this condemnation." so you have certain men to a specific condemnation. Now read the rest honestly and see what you think it says. Since you asked honestly, I hope you try to at least see what Iâ€™m saying.
Did God raise up Pharaoh for a certain condemnation? God said he did in Romans so this is not something new God does.
Dr. Tim wrote: The Grahams were predestined to be pope huggers. Please hand me the yellow Play Doh.
I will address the pope but not the other as a said I wouldn't
But the popes selling indulgences surely is a fulfilment of this verse:
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were BEFORE of OLD ORDAINED to THIS CONDEMNATION, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into LASCIVIOUSNESS, and denying the ONLY LORD God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Wow all you Mississippians are making me hungry over in my neck of the woods we just eat pigs brain tamales and have cow intestine lining soup (menudo) maybe I should head that way for some country cooking. You guys have possum pie?
B McCausland wrote: Kev There is a constant need of bringing about the topic of Christian ethics here due to the lack of Christian character displayed often. Definitely it is a sad predicament to observe such. Please, refrain from insult, which proves my point again.
I just made a general statement(threw a rock out) and you took offense(yelped).
You called me a liar back a little bit ago cause I said in general you proclaim to have "Christian character."
It is easy to logically deduce from your comments you proclaim to have Christian character unless you lecture everyone else on it but don't proclaim to have Christian character and just lecture others.
hypÂ·oÂ·crite ËˆhipÉ™ËŒkrit/Submit noun noun: hypocrite; plural noun: hypocrites a person who indulges in hypocrisy. synonyms: pretender, dissembler, deceiver, liar, pietist, sanctimonious person, plaster saint; More informalphony, fraud, sham, fake "I've been made to feel inadequate my whole life by someone who turns out to be a total hypocrite"
There was no PERSONAL insult in my earlier comment BMC (please reread for proper understanding)you are reading into what is not there and making false accusations.
Also if someone sees me in error I would want it pointed out!