and loss of "demonstration of holiness" has been the downfall of the churches since the beginning.

I think this is what you do when you read these posts.

9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Notice you will be saved in childbearing - but saved from what?

Are those that hold to covenant theology more correctly Covenant Dispensationalists?

Maybe they are irritated because Dispensationalists show mainly 7 divisions, and they have only 2.

We are going to disagree on OT circumcision and NT baptism.
Question though - was it possible for an Hebrew to be circumcised and yet unsaved?
Would Judas have been circumcised?

And no - Baptists are not all the same...not hardly!

True Baptists are not a denomination. The real deffinition of a denomination is a religious organization that has a hierarchial order, like Catholisism, and other offshoots of them. There are Baptists that are denominations, like the SBC, and such, because they answer to a non-local extra-church authority - namely their board. I know that SBC misionaties are told where to go, and you missions money all goes to the SBC and they disperse it, which I firmly believe is unbiblical and non-local.

Now - if you think baptism merits grace for that baby, then you do have a works religion. Biblical baptism ALWAYS preceeded repentace, regardless of age.

Predestination IS sactification. Go predetermined that those who come to him through Jesus Christ WILL BE conformed to his image.

Irving:
Here we go again with that "papist" word.

Don't forget the Anabaptist who are still around, and hardshell Baptist, and American, Missionary, Northern, Free Will, ect., ect., ect.

I guess I didn't quite get what you meant by

Some of you are too smart by half.

But, concerning your point, you did say "Therefore salvation is the gift of God and it is the gospel of God."

It all starts with grace, for if there were no grace, there would be no salvation. It falls in line with the Psalms when it says
The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich. Please note the word "IT" in this verse refering to the word BLESSING - singular. I is the fact that God blessses (grace) that makes rich, everything else is just a byproduct. We as materialistic humanists like to place the emphasis on the "things" God gives instead of He who is giving. This is the same with salvation.

It's also like when you give someone you love a gift. What is really the gift - your love, or the gift that flows out of your love? We do this with God also. Our affection is placed on the gift instead of on the one who gave the gift. God is a God of order, and he places everything in the right order, including salvation, which can only begin with grace, the gift.

JD - I heard this a while back, and was told it would take a while (or years) to make sense. A great IFB pastor in Philedelphia said that ALMOST every time you see the word Grace in the Bible you can substitute that word with "the Word of God." This is going to get many riled on this site, but as a year or so has gone by, I am begining to see what he meant. No comment necessary, just something to wrap your brain around and think about.

It listens to the “It is finished!” of the Sin-bearer, and says, “Amen.”
NOT FAITH, BUT CHRIST

by Horatius Bonar
(1808-1889)

This is truely beautiful, and better than I could ever state it.

For by grace are ye saved through FAITH, and that not of yourselves, it (grace) is the gift of God, not of work lest any man should boast.